The US Federal government runs more than 3500 programs, each designed to deliver a benefit to citizens or other customers in the US and around the world. Each is a collaborative effort with state and local governments, NGOs and sometimes other counties. And each relies on actors at the end of many delivery chains, far from where programs are planned and managed. Teachers. Inspectors. Law enforcement. War fighers. Diplomats. VA doctors and nurses. And many more.

So how can the Federal government ensure its programs deliver the right benefit to the right beneficiary, in the right way - plus continuously innovate to stay relevant to citizens and partners?

I know of no one better able to navigate a challenge of this magnitude than Mark Forman. With 30 years' experience inside government and out, in the US and around the world, Mark can conceive of solutions to big problems and see how they work where people implement them where the rubber meets the road. In this episode we discuss objectives and key results - OKRs - as a framework for getting people on the same page to deliver results and continuously improve return on program investments. Here are a few of my ahh-ha! moments:

2:06 - The OKR model as a framework for return on investment, especially of investments in transformations

3:11 - OKRs shift the focus from paying for activities to buying outcomes

4:19 - The relationship between ORRs and KPIs

5:38 and on - OKR use in the Federal government with 3500 programs

11:21 - The crux of modernizing many of the Federal government's systems is the difference between the user experience and the user interface

19:04 - The failures in applying agile development globally - which was supposed to be a breakthrough for modernization - stem from using technology to simplify legacy approaches to work, rather than using technology to rethink work

26:35 - OKR conversations in 3500 programs is a daunting endeavor. How could it be done on that scale?

31:05 - Using Federal Enterprise Architecture reference models to frame OKR conversations within and across programs

41:05 - Meeting the toughest innovation challenge - transforming programs as they conduct business as usual, which they must

43:05 - We can't boil the ocean so where do we start?