In this conversation, Samuel McCulloch and DeFi Advisoor discuss the recent rate changes in MakerDAO and the reasons behind them with Paper Imperium. They explore the cause of high rates, including the drainage of the PEG stability module (PSM) and the impact of Athena. They also discuss the demand for USDC and USDT, the role of BLAST DGENs, and the quick turnaround in implementing parameter changes. The conversation delves into the challenges of Maker's monetary policy, the resistance to change, and the potential knock-on effects in the market. Overall, the conversation highlights the resilience of MakerDAO and the need for adjustments in the rates framework.