This is a discussion with Steven Shorrock about the contrast between teaching and learning and why education and teaching are so far away from learning. It all began with the story of a little girl (Steve’s daughter) whose expression ‘I don’t mind’ as a response to being marked down for being late to school did not go well with the teacher. We explore the power of metaphor, language, feelings, power and authority in everyday interactions and why teaching can never be the same as learning.