Camila Russo, author of the 'The Infinite Machine' and the Defiant Newsletter, joins host Patrick Stanley, CEO at Freehold. They take on recent events in DeFi, discuss how permissionless finance is growing, and the ways different projects incentivize users. Later in the show, they discuss how tokens can be a tool for founders and community leaders and why they both believe 'proof of hodl' as a means for access is on the rise.

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