Margaret sits down with Joshua Nathaniel Pritikin - a former software and statistics professional turned psychological counselor, and the author of Religion Unburdened by Belief: An Open Inquiry. Joshua's path took a bold turn when he left behind a career in tech to follow a deeper calling: understanding the human mind and helping others navigate mental health. Now an IFS (Internal Family Systems) Certified Practitioner, he brings a refreshingly grounded and open-ended approach to spirituality, one that invites curiosity instead of blind acceptance.
Together, Margaret and Joshua explore what it might mean to practice a "scientific religion" - not in the sense of dogma or rigid doctrine, but as a way to make religious and meditative experiences more reliable, repeatable, and honest. Joshua shares how his book builds on the work of James Carse, and how he aims to develop tools for spiritual growth that include real feedback, not just self-deception or comfortable habits. They dive into a simple yet powerful meditation adjustment: instead of brushing aside distractions, take a mental note, return to your focus, and later tend to the "parts" that surfaced. It's a small shift that can deepen both meditation and self-understanding.
The conversation also takes a fascinating turn as Joshua describes the use of serotonergic psychedelics in communal ceremonies, like those in the Santo Daime tradition. He explains how participants are asked to stay present with the group - singing hymns, keeping rhythm, and remaining aware - even as the substance pulls them inward. This practice of "firmness," he suggests, trains the same muscles we use in meditation: staying present, resisting distraction, and developing discipline that carries into daily life. It's a compelling look at how spiritual experiences can be observed, shared, and even measured in group settings.
Throughout the episode, Margaret and Joshua touch on the danger of inherited beliefs, the vital role of questioning, and why open inquiry matters now more than ever. Joshua offers a hopeful vision: that religious experiences can inspire empathy, compassion, and a deeper sense of connection to all beings. And for anyone curious about taking this work further, Joshua shares that he has room in his talk therapy practice - available via Zoom, with a sliding scale - through his website, unburdened.biz.
For more, check out this article: https://thegentlelaw.substack.com/p/what-is-the-goal-in-meditation
Tune in for a rich, thoughtful conversation about meditation, belief, and what it means to meet the unknown with both rigor and an open heart.