Inspiring, unfiltered and fun conversations with those who've been in and around the publishing industry for many years ... and in some cases, come out the other side. Hear their wise words, their frustrations and the things they think you should understand about an industry that's often quite mysterious.

Today I chat to Erica Wagner and Craig Smith. Erica Wagner is a painter and collage artist, book publisher and creative consultant to storytellers. Her early career saw her work as an editor and later Associate Publisher at Penguin Books Australia, before establishing Silverfish, a new children's list, for Duffy & Snellgrove. She later moved across to become children's publisher at Allen & Unwin, where she stayed from 2000-2020. In amongst that, she was a big instigator of graphic novels, co-founding the graphic novel micro-press Twelve Panels Press.

Craig Smith has illustrated more than 400 books for children over 40 plus years, working with many of Australia's most experienced writers and editors. He’s seen the changes in technology, and embraced various means along the way – although as you’ll hear, nothing beats that initial start on paper.