With near daily calls to build back better after the pandemic, what does this mean for a world in crisis and in particular what does it mean for education? 2020 Wall Scholar Dr. Michelle Stack speaks with Dr. Cilla Ross about what happens when we think beyond education as a public good and the possibilities of a cooperative university. Dr. Cilla Ross. is an educator and a sociologist of work and is an Honorary Professor of Education at the University of Nottingham. She co-authored the groundbreaking book on the possibilities of cooperatives in higher education Reclaiming the University for the Public Good: Experiments and Futures in Co-operative Higher Education.