WTF is Finance

I sat down with two economists in China, Matthew Klein, who co-wrote the book on why trade wars are really class wars, and Ning Zhu, the professor who predicted China's housing collapse years before it happened and asked them everything I've never had answers to: what actually happens if trade surpluses and deficits continue for decades, why China consumes so much less of what it produces than India does, why the world keeps parking trillions in American debt, and whether de-dollarization is a real shift or just a story we like telling ourselves. Ning made the case that prolonged imbalances have historically been settled by war, Matthew argued that Korea's most traumatic financial moment not its miracle is what turned it into a surplus nation, and both agreed on the one thing every real estate developer in India refuses to believe: land prices do fall, and the moment everyone's convinced they can't is exactly when they do.

Timestamp

00:00 Introduction

06:29 Why trade surpluses and deficits can persist for decades

11:42 What actually signals a healthy economy, and Korea's shift from deficits to surpluses

17:46 Whether tariffs can correct an undervalued currency

23:12 Why the world keeps funding American debt so cheaply

29:49 Where American long-term yields go from here

35:36 Whether dedollarisation is actually happening

41:35 Why unsustainable arrangements outlast the arguments against them

46:37 How China's state guaranteed its housing bubble

52:25 Building an economy from scratch: efficiency against fairness

Zhu Ning- Deputy Dean and Professor of Finance, Shanghai Advanced Institute of Finance

Matthew C. Klein-Founder, The Overshoot | Co-author, Trade Wars Are Class Wars

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewcklein/
• Footage Courtesy: World Economic Forum (WEF) CC BY-NC-ND 4.0
• Source: https://www.weforum.org/videos/amnc26_summer_davos_highlights/

#Nikhilkamath-Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast

• Twitter: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilkamathcio/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkamathcio?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikhilkamathcio/

Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4nsm4ezn

Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/yme92c59

Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4tjua4th

#WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

I went to China and sat down with two economists — Matthew Klein, who co-wrote the book on why trade wars happen, and Ning Zhu, the professor who predicted China's housing crash before it happened — and asked them the questions everyone's asking right now: how is China's economy actually doing, is there an unsaid understanding that China keeps buying American treasuries, and are tariffs ever really an answer? Full episode drops soon.

Zhu Ning — Deputy Dean and Professor of Finance, Shanghai Advanced Institute of Finance

Matthew C. Klein — Founder, The Overshoot | Co-author, Trade Wars Are Class Wars

• LinkedIn: Matthew C. Klein on LinkedIn

Footage Courtesy: World Economic Forum (WEF) — CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

• Source: World Economic Forum — Summer Davos Highlights

#nikhilkamath — Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of WTF is & People By WTF Podcast

• Twitter/X: Nikhil Kamath on X
• Instagram: Nikhil Kamath on Instagram
• LinkedIn: Nikhil Kamath on LinkedIn
• Facebook: Nikhil Kamath on Facebook

Watch ‘WTF is’ Podcast on Spotify: Listen on Spotify

Watch ‘People by WTF’ Podcast on Spotify: Listen on Spotify

Watch ‘WTF Online’ on Spotify: Listen on Spotify

#WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

I went to China and sat down with two economists — Matthew Klein, who co-wrote the book on why trade wars happen, and Ning Zhu, the professor who predicted China's housing crash before it happened — and asked them the questions everyone's asking right now: how is China's economy actually doing, is there an unsaid understanding that China keeps buying American treasuries, and are tariffs ever really an answer? Full episode drops soon.

Zhu Ning — Deputy Dean and Professor of Finance, Shanghai Advanced Institute of Finance

Matthew C. Klein — Founder, The Overshoot | Co-author, Trade Wars Are Class Wars

• LinkedIn: Matthew C. Klein on LinkedIn

Footage Courtesy: World Economic Forum (WEF) — CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

• Source: World Economic Forum — Summer Davos Highlights

#nikhilkamath — Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of WTF is & People By WTF Podcast

• Twitter/X: Nikhil Kamath on X
• Instagram: Nikhil Kamath on Instagram
• LinkedIn: Nikhil Kamath on LinkedIn
• Facebook: Nikhil Kamath on Facebook

Watch ‘WTF is’ Podcast on Spotify: Listen on Spotify

Watch ‘People by WTF’ Podcast on Spotify: Listen on Spotify

Watch ‘WTF Online’ on Spotify: Listen on Spotify

#WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

I sat down with Howard Marks, the co-founder of Oaktree and the man who has been writing the memos every serious investor on earth opens first for over thirty years, and what was supposed to be a conversation about debt and cycles became a conversation about how anyone gets above-average at anything in a world where everyone smart is already trying. We covered why he picked bonds over stocks for an entire career and got rich doing the opposite of what everyone wanted to do, why the S&P returns 10% a year but almost never between 8 and 12, why he changed his mind on AI after a single conversation with Claude, what AI can't do that great investors still can, why he thinks India's biggest export business sits in the crosshairs of AI, and where the $10 bill nobody has picked up is hiding right now.

00:00 Introduction

02:05 From Queens to Wharton beginnings

08:10 Mujo and independence of events

15:17 Why cycles exist in markets

22:09 Pandemic, recessions, and recovery age

28:38 Where we are today

36:08 Drifting versus seeing the river

42:57 Oak Tree and accidental entrepreneurship

49:45 Why bonds over equities

57:14 Distressed bonds and excess returns

1:05:36 Beginning a new career today

1:12:42 Active management versus indexation

1:20:08 Learning from Andrew, second level thinking

1:27:25 How to become contrarian and better

1:34:28 Learning from history, final advice

#Nikhil Kamath Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast

• Twitter: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilkamathcio/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkamathcio/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikhilkamathcio/

#HowardMarks Co-founder and co-chairman of Oaktree Capital Management

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardmarksbook/
• Twitter: https://x.com/HowardMarksBook

Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4nsm4ezn

Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/yme92c59

Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4tjua4th

#WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

Howard Marks runs the largest distressed debt firm in the world, has been writing the memos that Warren Buffett opens first for over thirty years, and just changed his mind on AI after a single conversation with Claude — we got into who's going to make the most money in investing over the next ten years, why he picked debt over equity for an entire career, why the S&P returns 10% on average but almost never between 8 and 12, and where the $10 bill nobody's picked up is sitting right now.

#nikhilkamath Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast

Twitter: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilkamathcio/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkamathcio?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikhilkamathcio/

#HowardMarks Co-founder and co-chairman of Oaktree Capital Management

LinkedIN- https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardmarksbook/

Twitter - https://x.com/HowardMarksBook

Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4nsm4ezn

Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/yme92c59

Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4tjua4th

#WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

Howard Marks runs the largest distressed debt firm in the world, has been writing the memos that Warren Buffett opens first for over thirty years, and just changed his mind on AI after a single conversation with Claude — we got into who's going to make the most money in investing over the next ten years, why he picked debt over equity for an entire career, why the S&P returns 10% on average but almost never between 8 and 12, and where the $10 bill nobody's picked up is sitting right now.

#nikhilkamath Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas

Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast

Twitter: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilkamathcio/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkamathcio?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikhilkamathcio/

#HowardMarks Co-founder and co-chairman of Oaktree Capital Management

LinkedIN- https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardmarksbook/

Twitter - https://x.com/HowardMarksBook

Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4nsm4ezn

Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/yme92c59

Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify

https://tinyurl.com/4tjua4th

#WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

Wealth can be created easily — but that doesn’t mean it’s real. In WTF is Finance, Ray Dalio explains how money actually works, why asset bubbles form, and how investors should build portfolios that survive cycles, debt, and political change. 

00:00 – Ray Dalio’s early life & first exposure to markets

04:55 – Why early wins hook people into trading

07:20 – Leverage, futures & learning risk the hard way

08:45 – Nixon ending the gold standard & why it mattered

11:25 – What money really is (store value vs medium of exchange)

15:00 – The interest-rate trap: promises vs real money

18:00 – How Ray compares assets, liquidity & leverage

21:48 – Portfolio construction if you can’t beat the market

24:21 – Bitcoin, stablecoins & why Ray remains cautious

26:40 – What actually counts as a store of wealth (beyond gold & crypto)

28:41 – Real estate, taxation & why immovable assets are easy to tax

30:44 – Learning by proximity: the modern version of “being a caddy”

34:22 – Prediction markets: speculation vs hedging

36:02 – Wealth vs money: how bubbles are created

41:32 – The 5 big forces that drive economies & markets

45:39 – How young Indians should actually “play the money game”

50:00 – What makes a successful trader or investor psychologically

52:43 – Curiosity, cause–effect thinking & building an edge

55:00 – Ray Dalio on legacy, Community & passing knowledge forward

59:50 – Leadership lessons from China, UAE & global powers

1:05:02 – China vs US vs India: understanding the new world order

#NikhilKamath Entrepreneur & Investor Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast

• X: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilkamathcio/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkamathcio?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app 
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikhilkamathcio/ 

#RayDalio American Hedge Fund Manager

• X: https://x.com/raydalio 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/raydalio/ 
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raydalio 
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/raydalio/ 

Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5T1uhRS...

Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/435Ybgm...

Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3BQFvdH... 

#PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

Wealth can be created easily. But is it actually real? A conversation on money, investing, and the mechanics that quietly shape global markets with Ray Dalio. Coming Soon! #NikhilKamath Entrepreneur & Investor Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast X: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/ 

• Instagram:   / nikhilkamathcio   
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkam... 
• Facebook:   / nikhilkamathcio   #RayDalio 

American Hedge Fund Manager

• X: https://x.com/raydalio 
• Instagram:  / raydalio   
• Linkedin:   / raydalio   
• Facebook:   / raydalio   

Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5T1uhRS... Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/435Ybgm... Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3BQFvdH... #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

Ruchir Sharma thinks America’s peak is over. In this episode, I sat down with the author, investor and economist to discuss the forces shaping the world’s economy, where India fits in the new world order, and all things geopolitics.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Intro

2:45 - Early life & formative years

6:50 - What India can learn from Singapore & China’s models

11:33 - Premature welfare state: growth or mistake?

17:47 - Social mobility, elections & incumbency

27:06 - Does meritocracy create inequality?

31:29 - Why govt. bailouts hurt the private sector

33:50 - Regulation, crypto & blockchain

44:06 - Tariffs & free trade

49:12 - Affordable housing & property taxes

56:55 - Does India need a dogecoin?

1:02:00 - State vs. central govt. in India

1:09:07 - Putting corruption into perspective

1:15:03 - UBI & AI’s potential

1:25:37 - Interaction with Putin

1:32:35 - Journalism, free speech & media ethics

1:41:43 - Short selling: risks & rewards

1:43:47 - How Ruchir found his passion

1:53:26 - Validation & defining happiness

1:57:28 - FDI & how India can boost growth

2:06:44 - US: Superpower no more?

2:11:31 - Geopolitics: India, China & US

2:18:28 - American tech & patriotism

2:21:55 - Small cap boom & retail investors

2:30:56 - China today: politics & economics

2:37:26 - The thesis of American exceptionalism

2:40:28 - India’s 10 year playbook: wages vs. assets

2:48:35 - Private, public & emerging markets

2:52:48 - Tomorrow’s big trends

#NikhilKamath - Investor & Entrepreneur

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#RuchirSharma - Chairman of Rockefeller International and Founder and Chief Investment Officer of Breakout Capital

Website: https://ruchirsharma.com/