Veterans are trained to follow lawful orders — but they're also taught that just following orders is never a complete moral defense. So where does obedience end and complicity begin?

This week on The Smoke Pit, Katie brings together a panel of veterans and military family members to dig into one of the most uncomfortable tensions in American civic life: when is breaking the law not only justified, but necessary?

In this episode, the panel covers:

• Henry David Thoreau, Gandhi, and MLK — and the through-line of civil disobedience theory that connects them
• The Nuremberg trials and why "just following orders" was never enough
• Historical examples from the suffragette movement, civil rights era, LGBTQ movement, and labor movement
• How Rosa Parks was strategically chosen — and what three years of planning behind the Birmingham bus boycotts actually looked like
• Boycotts, economic pressure, and why you only need to move 10-15% of a customer base to do serious damage
• How veterans are uniquely positioned to lead and understand civil disobedience
• The difference between peaceful disruption and January 6th — and why that line matters
• Why America celebrates past dissent while condemning present dissent