This is a reading and conversation with Cav and Zac . We had a great time. They are friends. I hate intros. I am very professional. This is a professional podcast.

Zac Smith is the author of Everything is Totally Fine (Muumuu House, 2021) and 50 Barn Poems (2019). His writing has been published by Hobart, X-Ray, Maudlin House, New World Writing, Wigleaf, Bending Genres, and other magazines. Cavin Bryce Gonzalez is the founder of Back Patio Press and former prose editor for Soft Cartel