Do you know where the wood in your floorboards comes from? Or your desk, or dining chairs? In this episode, we dig deep into the grain of a global issue that is often hidden in plain sight in our offices, our houses and our cities – tracing timber back to its source.

Harriet talks to Annabelle Dodson, ZSL's Sustainable Business Project Manager, and Victor Deklerck, Director of Science at World Forest ID, about how scientists use isotopes to pinpoint where the trees behind our wood products were grown, the role of digital tracking systems in supply chains, and real-world cases where traceability has driven more responsible sourcing and enforcement. This project is funded by Fondation Lombard Odier and the EU through the ECO-SOLVE project.

This episode is part of a series showcasing ZSL's Sustainable Business and Finance work.

Please note that this podcast was recorded before the European Commission confirmed changes to the implementation timeline of the EU Deforestation Regulation (EUDR). Compliance requirements for micro and small enterprises have been delayed to 30 December 2026 (previously June 2026), while medium and large enterprises must still comply by 30 December 2025.

Overview

00:14 Harriet McAra, Host of Wild Science, Episode introduction 02:10 Annabelle Dodson, Sustainable Business Project Manager, ZSL 03:19 How does illegal timber enter supply chains, and how does traceability help? 05:17 ZSL Cameroon and World Forest ID 07:50 Victor Deklerck, Director of Science, World Forest ID 09:06 From chemical fingerprints to final verification 12:36 Implications for industry 17:05 The future of supply chain transparency 19:21 What can consumers and companies do to support traceability? 20:40 Harriet McAra, summary and outro

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Read more about the project: www.zsl.org/news-and-events/feature/responsible-sourcing-africa
• World Forest ID: https://worldforestid.org/
• The Alliance for Wood ID Testing: https://worldforestid.org/insights/partnership-with-wwf
• ZSL SPOTT'S ESG policy transparency assessments of timber and pulp companies: https://www.spott.org/timber-pulp/
• Free training materials on forest-driven commodities: https://www.spott.org/training-hub/
• Help keep SPOTT going. Without continued funding, these assessments can't continue. Donate today at https://donate.zsl.org/spott/ or email [email protected]
• Find out more about ZSL's Sustainable Business and Finance team: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/working-with-business

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Find us @ZSLScience on X or @zslofficial.bsky.social on BlueSky and use the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation
• Email [email protected] for questions about SPOTT assessments, methodology, or partnership.
• Follow SPOTT on LinkedIn @ZSL SPOTT, X @zslspott or BlueSky ‪@zslspott.bsky.social‬ ‬‬‬‬‬
• ZSL's Sustainable Business and Finance team offers advisory services to help companies and investors take practical, science-based action for nature. Get in touch: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/working-with-business/advisory-services

What do car tyres, yoga mats and trainers have in common? They all contain natural rubber, tapped from trees by millions of small farmers, mostly in Asia. While natural rubber production is renewable, its impact on the environment through deforestation, habitat loss and soil degradation, can be great when not managed sustainably.

In this episode, we hear from a Thai rubber farmer, about the challenges faced on the ground, as well as one of the world's biggest tyre makers, Michelin, about rubber's colonial history, its tangled supply chains, and how they're working with farmers on sustainability. Finally, we explore how investors can use their influence to demand better practices and drive industry-wide change that benefits both people and nature.

This episode is part of a series showcasing ZSL's Sustainable Business and Finance work.

Overview

00:15 Harriet McAra, Host of Wild Science, and Rachel Poluan, ZSL SPOTT Team: Episode introduction 02:58 Introduction to the natural rubber sector and how rubber is produced 07:30 Edouard De Rostolan, Michelin: The historical legacy of rubber production and supply chains 12:54 Exploring ESG risks and opportunities 23:52 Khun Soontorn, a rubber smallholder in Thailand: A smallholder perspective 32:04 Agroforestry and the environmental aspects of rubber farms 41:38 Joe Horrocks Taylor, Columbia Threadneedle: How can investors and buyers affect change? 1:02:15 Rachel Poluan, summary and outro

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• SPOTT: https://www.spott.org/
• Natural rubber: SPOTT'S ESG policy transparency assessments: https://www.spott.org/natural-rubber/
• SPOTT training hub: https://www.spott.org/training-hub/
• Help keep SPOTT going. Without continued funding, these assessments can't continue. Donate today at https://donate.zsl.org/spott/ or email [email protected]
• Find out more about ZSL's Sustainable Business and Finance team: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/working-with-business

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Find us @ZSLScience on X or @zslofficial.bsky.social on BlueSky and use the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation
• Email [email protected] for questions about SPOTT assessments, methodology, or partnership.
• Follow SPOTT on LinkedIn @ZSL SPOTT, X @zslspott or BlueSky ‪@zslspott.bsky.social‬ ‬‬‬‬‬
• ZSL's Sustainable Business and Finance team offers advisory services to help companies and investors take practical, science-based action for nature. Get in touch: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/working-with-business/advisory-services

The coastal waters of Wales are home to a whopping 27 species of sharks, skates and rays, known collectively as elasmobranchs, and they are a fundamental part of Wales' natural heritage. But even so, research on their biology and conservation status is lacking. In this episode, Wild Science hits the road to join scientists from Project SIARC and the Ocean Predator Lab in North Wales as they work with local fishing communities to monitor tope sharks, and contribute to better understanding and conservation of shark species in the region.

Overview

00:11 Harriet McAra, Host of Wild Science, Episode introduction 01:26 Welcome to Pwllheli 03:13 Interview with David Curnick, Research Fellow, Institute of Zoology, ZSL and Head of the Ocean Predator Lab 06:18 How to tag a tope shark 12:44 Interview with Daniel Montgomery, Postdoctoral Research Assistant, Institute of Zoology, ZSL 18:44 Interview with Jake Davies, Project SIARC Technical Specialist, ZSL and Natural Resources Wales 22:57 Outro and final reflections

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Project SIARC: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/projects/project-siarc
• Ocean Predator Lab: https://www.oceanpredatorlab.com/
• David Curnick: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/david-curnick
• A fisher's perspective: Using half a century of local fisher knowledge to identify socio-economic, ecological and legislative trends influencing angelshark (Squatina squatina) records in Wales: https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pan3.70044

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Find us @ZSLScience on X or @zslofficial.bsky.social on BlueSky and use the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

Making sure that the animals held in ZSL's two conservation zoos, London and Whipsnade, are fed a diet that can help them thrive is crucial, both for keeping them healthy under managed care, and ensuring they are in the best possible shape for a return to the wild. Amanda Ferguson is ZSL's Diet Management Officer and is responsible for creating tailored diets for all the animals across both ZSL Zoos, from snails to elephants! We learn how to feed an animal for which there are no guidelines, why enriched feeding methods are so important, and why you'll rarely see a monkey at London Zoo with a banana.

Overview

00:11 Harriet McAra, Host of Wild Science, Episode introduction

01:10 Interview with Amanda Ferguson

25:16 How does nutrition help us recover wild populations?

33:04 Outro and final reflections

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• The Evolution of Enrichment, a public event held at ZSL featuring a talk from Amanda Ferguson on how diet presentation can meet the behavioural needs of animals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hqrweox2UA
• Amanda Ferguson: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Amanda-Ferguson-9
• Corncrake conservation: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/projects/conserving-native-birds
• Mountain chicken frog conservation: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/projects/mountain-chicken-frog-conservation
• Comparison of the nutritional content of the captive and wild diets of the critically endangered mountain chicken frog (Leptodactylus fallax) to improve its captive husbandry https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30221785/

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Find us @ZSLScience on X or @zslofficial.bsky.social on BlueSky and use the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

After our Nature's Negotiators miniseries, where we learned all about the complexities, challenges and importance of United Nations climate and biodiversity meetings, we wanted to give the gift of a bonus episode to round things off! We catch up with Bethan to hear how things went after she attended COP29, United Nations Climate Change Conference, in Azerbaijan.

Overview

00:11 Harriet McAra, Host of Wild Science, Episode introduction

00:54 Bethan Laughlin, ZSL's Senior Policy Specialist, on how the finance negotiations at COP29 played out

06:37 Bethan on the strength of language used in texts agreed at COP29, and how that came to be

10:38 Bethan on the accuracy of the portrayal of COP29 in the media

12:38 The other themes discussed at COP29

14:04 What can be expected at the next climate COP in Belem, Brazil

16:17 Outro

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Bethan Laughlin: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/bethan-laughlin
• ZSL's United Nations and Intergovernmental Policy Engagement: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/conservation/creating-change/informing-policy/united-nations-and-intergovernmental-engagement
• ZSL's COP16 position statement: https://cms.zsl.org/sites/default/files/2024-10/CBD%20COP16%20Key%20Asks%20-%20October%202024.pdf
• "Negotiations ran out of time, but action on biodiversity loss cannot be postponed…" Blog written by Georgina Chandler: https://www.zsl.org/news-and-events/feature/cbd-cop16-negotiations-ran-out-time-action-biodiversity-loss-cannot-be

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Tweet us @ZSLScience with the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

2024 has been a big year for international climate policy, with two UN Conference of Parties, or COPs, taking place in quick succession; COP16 in Colombia followed just a few weeks later by COP29 in Azerbaijan. In this episode of Wild Science, we follow on from part one of our Nature's Negotiators miniseries, and are once again joined by Bethan Laughlin, ZSL Senior Policy Specialist. We discuss the challenges and successes of the two biodiversity and climate COPs, tackle some new UN lingo, and hear about key hopes for the future of climate policy.

Overview

00:12 Harriet McAra, Host of Wild Science, Episode introduction

01:12 Bethan Laughlin, ZSL's Senior Policy Specialist, speaking from COP16 in Cali, Colombia

02:13 Interview with Bethan Laughlin on the successes of COP16

04:05 Insights on the ground at COP16: Davi Teles, Mónica Franco Gutiérrez & Liliana Patricia Saboyá Acosta

07:47 Georgina Chandler, ZSL's Head of Policy and Campaigns, on digital sequence information

10:34 Continued: Interview with Bethan on the challenges of COP16 and opportunities for the future

17:56 Carly Siege, Manager for International Policy Conservation International

19:30 Thomas Pickford, UK Partnerships and Policy Lead, The Nature Conservancy

30:45 Final reflections, an update from Bethan, and outro

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Bethan Laughlin: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/bethan-laughlin
• Georgina Chandler: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/georgina-chandler
• Read more about our EDGE Fellows: https://www.edgeofexistence.org/edge-fellows/
• ZSL's COP16 position statement: https://cms.zsl.org/sites/default/files/2024-10/CBD%20COP16%20Key%20Asks%20-%20October%202024.pdf
• "Negotiations ran out of time, but action on biodiversity loss cannot be postponed…" Blog written by Georgina Chandler: https://www.zsl.org/news-and-events/feature/cbd-cop16-negotiations-ran-out-time-action-biodiversity-loss-cannot-be

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Tweet us @ZSLScience with the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

What does it take to reintroduce an animal to the wild safely? How do we make sure that disease risk to existing populations, and to the animals being reintroduced, is mitigated?

Hear from the Disease Risk Analysis and Health Surveillance Team (DRAHS) at ZSL who are working to give animals the best start possible as they return to the wild, and whose work has contributed to the recovery of over 30 species across the world.

Overview

00:11 Harriet McAra, Introduction to episode

01:01 Dr Tony Sainsbury, DRAHS lead, ZSL

05:44 Clare McNamee, Wildlife Veterinarian and Research Associate, ZSL

10:40 Dr Sophie Common, Wildlife Veterinarian and Research Associate, ZSL

17:27 Georgie Gerrard, DRAHS Project Manager, ZSL

20:32 Becky Foskett, Pathology and Field Technician, ZSL

27:45 Dr Claudia Carraro, Wildlife Veterinarian and Research Associate, ZSL

32:31 Outro and further information

Resources and references

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/Conservation
• Wildlife Disease Risk Analysis and Health Surveillance: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/projects/wildlife-disease-risk-analysis-and-health-surveillance
• More about dormice health monitoring: Hazel dormice - People's Trust for Endangered Species (ptes.org) & National Dormouse Monitoring Programme (NDMP) (ptes.org)
• More about our Extinct in the Wild work: Extinct in the Wild | The Zoological Society of London (zsl.org)
• More about chequered skipper conservation: Chequered Skippers - Butterfly Conservation
• Vernet, M., Trask, A.E., Andrews, C.E. et al. Assessing invasion risks using EICAT-based expert elicitation: application to a conservation translocation. Biol Invasions 26, 2707–2721 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10530-024-03341-2
• Gibson, L., Shadbolt, T., Paul, P. et al. Prevalence and Molecular Analysis of Encephalomyocarditis Virus-2 in the Hazel Dormouse. EcoHealth 21, 112–122 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10393-024-01680-z

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Tweet us @ZSLScience with the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

You may have heard of a COP, and you've almost definitely heard of the United Nations (UN), but how much do you know about the negotiations that go into getting nature, climate and biodiversity embedded into international policy? Ahead of the United Nations Biodiversity Conference (CBD COP16) in Colombia this autumn, we're hearing from policy experts in this two-part miniseries on how we can save the planet one meeting at a time…or at least try to.

Overview

00:11 Introduction to Nature's Negotiators mini-series

00:24 Bethan Laughlin, ZSL's Senior Policy Specialist, speaking from a CBD intercessional meeting in Nairobi

01:07 Introduction from Harriet McAra

2:09 Interview with Bethan Laughlin on the history of the CBD, UNFCCC and Global Biodiversity Framework

10:02 Nelly Musyoka, ZSL Kenya's Community Liaison Officer, on how the 23 CBD targets are applied to real world conservation

14:39 Bethan Laughlin on what ZSL's priorities are for COP16 in Colombia

23:39 Fiona Dobson, RSPB, on what RSPB's priorities are for COP16 in Colombia

33:18 Outro and further information

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Bethan Laughlin: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/bethan-laughlin
• Watch a recording of our Science and Conservation Event, Putting Nature at the Heart of Global Decision Making: https://www.zsl.org/news-and-events/events/putting-nature-heart-global-decision-making
• View the infographic depicting successes and failures following the Rio Earth Summit as described by Bethan in this episode: https://cms.zsl.org/sites/default/files/2024-08/CBD%20UNFCCC%20timeline.png

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Tweet us @ZSLScience with the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

Out of sight…but not out of mind? Coral reefs exist largely out of sight for the majority of the world's population, so the vast array of ecosystem services they provide for local communities are often forgotten, leading conservation efforts to feel like an uphill battle. In this episode, we talk to the people trying to tackle this problem; from using the sounds that healthy and degraded coral reefs make to monitor their restoration, to bringing people closer to coral reefs using virtual reality.

Overview

00:13 Introduction to the topic from Harriet McAra

01:26 Ben Williams, PhD student at the Institute of Zoology and UCL, on coral reefs' importance, coral soundscapes and the Mars Assisted Reef Restoration System

08:30 Introduction to the Datascape Realities Project

08:52 John Zhang and Lourenco Viveiros, co-founders of Datascape Realities, and Jason Lynch, UCL and Institute of Zoology

28:14 Outro and further information

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Ben Williams: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/ben-williams
• Mars Assisted Reef Restoration System: https://www.buildingcoral.com/ and https://www.buildingcoral.com/news/mars-data-scientists-turn-their-skills-to-coral-reef-restoration
• Datascape Realities: https://www.datascaperealities.com/ and @datascape_real

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Tweet us @ZSLScience with the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation

Co-existence between communities living on the Korean Peninsula and carnivores such as leopards, tigers and black bears, has historically presented many challenges leading to population declines in these species. However, thanks to international treaties such as the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, as well as economic growth and conservation translocations, the tide is now turning on these declines in South Korea. In this episode, host Harriet McAra is joined by Joshua Elves-Powell to discuss how wildlife trade has impacted carnivores in East Asia, and the conservation measures being taken to protect these globally threatened species.

Overview

00:20 - Introduction to the topic from Harriet McAra, and introduction to the podcast guest

02:24 - Josh Elves-Powell, PhD student at the Institute of Zoology and UCL, introduction and interview

27:06 - Outro and further information

Resources

• If there's a topic you'd like to hear on a future podcast, or if you'd like to share your thoughts, email the ZSL Wild Science Podcast at: [email protected]
• Check out our science and conservation work at: www.zsl.org/Science or www.zsl.org/conservation
• Joshua Elves-Powell: https://www.zsl.org/about-zsl/our-people/joshua-elves-powell
• The latest publication from Joshua Elves-Powell, reporting major declines in South Korean big cat trade: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0299783
• Project Moon Bear: https://en.projectmoonbear.org/Mission
• Korean Tiger and Leopard Conservation Fund: https://blog.naver.com/savetiger
• Blogs written by Joshua Elves-Powell
  • Asiatic black bear restoration in South Korea: https://theconversation.com/south-korea-is-bringing-back-bears-in-a-country-of-52-million-people-i-went-to-find-out-how-164301
  • Moves to end bear farming in South Korea: https://theconversation.com/south-korea-to-ban-bear-farming-but-what-to-do-about-hundreds-of-captive-animals-that-remain-197316

Get in touch

• Email [email protected] with your questions, comments, and thoughts for future episodes!
• Tweet us @ZSLScience with the hashtag #ZSLWildScience
• Follow us on Facebook @ZSLScienceAndConservation