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December 18, 2025 Episode 100: A last look back, and a grand finale
Episode 100 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
In this, our final episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with several previous guests and show producer Colin Wambsgans. You’ll hear clips from some of our guests, such as Father Greg Boyle, Sister Helen Prejean, and Padraig O’Tuama, and new check-in interviews with Dr C Vanessa White, Father Justin Claravall, and Sister Sarah Hennessy. To conclude, Colin and Sister Julia reflect on the ways the podcast affected them through the years.
We’re truly honored to have you as a listener.
Peace, and all good.
To hear full previous episodes of prior guests, click on their name below:
Father Greg Boyle
Sister Helen Prejean
Padraig O’Tuama
Dr C Vanessa White
Father Justin Claravall
Sister Sarah Hennessy
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A transcript of the show is available.
“Love is the messiest human thing there is.”
~ Sr. Julia Walsh, FSPA
ABOUT THE TEAM
Julia Walsh is a Franciscan Sister of Perpetual Adoration based in Wisconsin. A storyteller, poet, and community-builder, her ministry experience includes teaching, retreat facilitation, preaching, spiritual accompaniment, justice advocacy, and caring for people who are unhoused and incarcerated. Sister Julia is the author of two books including For Love of the Broken Body: A Spiritual Memoir and is the founder of Messy Jesus Business, a website and podcast that explores the messiness of modern Christianity. The author of numerous articles, her work has been featured on the BBC, Relevant Radio, U.S. Catholic, America, and National Catholic Reporter. In 2017 she received a Master’s in Pastoral Studies from Catholic Theological Union, Chicago. Today she serves her Franciscan community as a vocation director and speaks to a variety of groups about topics such as creativity, contemplation, and Gospel living.
Colin Wambsgans is a composer and sound designer living in Los Angeles. His original music often uses field recordings as a basis, and has been presented at Cafe Oto (London), exMus (Dallas), and several venues around Los Angeles, including The Hammer Museum, Music @ Boston Court, the wulf., and Dog Star Orchestra. For the theater, Colin was the sound designer for productions with LaMama (NYC), Chalk Rep (LA), Rogue Machine (LA), and Center Rep (Walnut Creek, CA). His film work includes original music for All Exchanges Final (2016) and Spoons (2024)and sound design for River Mama (2024) and While the Trees Sleep (2017), which was selected for the Edinburgh Film Festival and Canne’s Short Film Corner. He has worked on numerous podcasts, including original music for NPR’s “Embedded” and production and editing for “Messy Jesus Business”. He lives in Burbank, CA with his wife and kids.
Mary Chuey Bishop writes spiritual nonfiction and speculative fiction and works as an editor, including for Messy Jesus Business. She lives, loves, writes, works, and worries from her home in Annapolis, MD. You can find her at marycbishop.com.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
BE SOCIAL:

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1 hr 7 min
December 11, 2025 Kaitlin Curtice: story and cyclical spirituality
Episode 99 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with Kaitlin Curtice. They explore Indigenous spirituality, the power of stories, the cyclical nature of being, expansiveness and liminality, the difference between certainty and faith, joy in art, Mother Earth, community, taking time to heal, presence and contemplation, and much more.
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A transcript of the show is available.
“Liminality is just the gray areas of life, the spaces where we don’t quite know yet. We don’t quite have things figured out or it’s complex. And I think that if we’re honest, that’s where so many of us live spiritually, is in those deep questions.”
-Kaitlin Curtice
Kaitlin Curtice
ABOUT THE GUEST
Kaitlin Curtice is an award-winning author, poet-storyteller, and public speaker. As an enrolled citizen of the Potawatomi nation, Kaitlin writes on the intersections of spirituality and identity and how that shifts throughout our lives. She also speaks on these topics to diverse audiences who are interested in truth-telling and healing.
As an inter-spiritual advocate, Kaitlin participates in conversations on topics such as colonialism in faith communities, and she has spoken at many conferences on the importance of inter-faith relationships. Kaitlin leads workshops and retreats, as well as lectures and keynote presentations, ranging from panels at the Aspen Climate Conference to speaking at the Chautauqua Institution and at universities, private retreat centers, and churches across the country.
In 2020 Kaitlin’s award-winning book Native: Identity, Belonging and Rediscovering God won Georgia Author of the Year in the religion category. Native explores the relationship between American Christianity and Indigenous peoples, drawing on Kaitlin’s experiences as a Potawatomi woman.
In 2023, Kaitlin released two books, first, Living Resistance: An Indigenous Vision for Seeking Wholeness Every Day, which examines the journey of resisting the status quo of hate by caring for ourselves, one another, and Mother Earth, and second, her first children’s book called Winter’s Gifts: An Indigenous Celebration of Nature, which is the premier book in a series of four books on the four seasons coming out with Convergent, RandomHouse Books. Her second book in the series called Summer’s Magic was released in 2024.
Besides her books, Kaitlin has written online for Sojourners, Religion News Service, On Being, SELF Magazine, Oprah Daily, and more. Her work has been featured on CBS and in USA Today. She also writes essays and poetry for The Liminality Journal and spends her time supporting other authors as they navigate the world of publishing. Kaitlin lives near Philadelphia with her partner, two dogs, and two kids.
Find out more about Kaitlin at Instagram.com/kaitlincurtice, and The Liminality Journal on Substack.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
BE SOCIAL:

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Twitter: @messyjesusbiz
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SUPPORT US:
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41 min
December 04, 2025 The waiting soul gives: hope-filled resistance to tyranny
Note from the editor:
Due to unforeseen circumstances, the Messy Jesus Business podcast and blog schedule have been switched around this month. Check back the next two weeks for our final podcast episodes, with many more blog posts to follow!
Modern Christians often fail to discuss that the Christian Church was established during a time of widespread violence and persecution. Our creeds were drafted, faith traditions formed, and the community of believers expanded during a time when it was risky to declare that Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace. We seem to forget that Christian devotion was never about being comfortable, cozy, or complacent.
We often fail to proclaim that living the Gospel, following The Way of Christ, is meant to be dangerous.
For about the first 300 years of Christianity, the Pax Christi (Peace of Christ) that Christians professed was in stark contrast to Pax Romana (Peace of Rome) that defined the structures of the Roman empire. The founder of Christianity, Jesus Christ, repeatedly told his followers to “be not afraid.” Meanwhile, the governmental structures of the time ruled through fear: controlling the populace with oppression by taxation, slavery, and ongoing threats and violence.
A read-through of the New Testament reminds the modern believer that the early Christians were not only dealing with violence and persecution, but they were filled with a fierce hope that Jesus Christ was about to return. (See 1 Peter 4; James 5:7-9; 2 Thessalonians 2; John 5:28-29; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 9:28 and elsewhere.)
Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good;love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor.Do not grow slack in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.Rejoice in hope, endure in affliction, persevere in prayer.Contribute to the needs of the holy ones, exercise hospitality.Bless those who persecute [you], bless and do not curse them.Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.Have the same regard for one another; do not be haughty but associate with the lowly; do not be wise in your own estimation.Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all.If possible, on your part, live at peace with all.
--Romans 12:9-18
The early Church mothers and fathers were motivated to be moral because they wanted to be ready for Jesus’ return, they wanted to be “caught doing good.” Their hope for Jesus’ return motivated them to be generous, hospitable, prayerful, and bold in their acts of compassion, mercy, and justice, finding ways to include the outcast, the poor, ill, and migrants into their underground, subversive communities. They understood that those in need were the face of Christ.
Photo by Kenta Kikuchi on Unsplash
Compare these foundations of Christianity to Advent in the United States nowadays. Christians often avoid the discomfort of our faith. Instead, we succumb to the cozy culture of commercialized Christmas: trendy décor, consumerism, waste, and general gluttony. See the examples of the silly and expensive so-called Advent calendars to see how far we have drifted from the Tradition of resisting the violence of empire and having hope in Jesus alone.
Nowadays, those who are comfortable feast on the festive feelings while gaps grow between rich and poor, families are torn apart, people are detained and tortured, and the US government protects the interests of billionaires and the war machine. Bombs are falling and systems are collapsing, yet we snuggle into the sofa to be numbed by sugared Hallmark holiday cheer.
Here's the thing: I like being cozy and comfortable too. I believe in the power of sabbath, rest, and retreat. And, during the Advent season, I love lighting candles, singing along with cheery music, baking cookies, writing cards and notes, and visiting people I love. When I pray at home during the Advent season, I’m usually snuggled into a fluffy blanket. I have more than enough to eat, and don’t fear a raid, detention, or warfare. The calm and quiet is so ordinary, that I could easily take it for granted. If I am not staying awake, I could quickly cocoon into safety and avoidance.
What is the nature of a soul that is waiting for the return of Jesus Christ? If we remain rooted in our faith tradition, Advent actions will move us from the sacred stillness to a spirit of bold generosity and compassion. We give up our plans and preferences for the sake of the other. I was reminded of this recently as I accompanied a couple people dear to me through surgeries and recoveries and then some Emergency Room visits. To be present and centered on what’s most important– such as compassion for another—I had to adjust and be flexible, changing the date of a podcast interview and the release of an episode.This may not be a radical act, but it was a great reminder for me about the need to be ready, open, and available for whatever newness Christ is sending.
Photo by Duncan Shaffer on Unsplash
As we wait and prepare for the coming of Christ, let’s remember the faith of our ancestors who were resisting tyranny and oppression by staying devoted to nonviolent Christian love and accepting the cost of commitment. We even may need to expect persecution as we risk comfort for the sake of the other. Let’s give what we can to those in need.
Let’s not worry about what we will receive, or the fruits of our efforts; let’s put our trust in God’s goodness. And then, awake to Christ already with us and with hope in the coming of Christ, let’s stay faithful to our mission to love.
For more by this author and more about Advent, visit our web site.
1 min
November 20, 2025 timone davis: peace and paradox
Episode 98 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with timone davis. They explore naming what you see in people, the military, Christ’s peace, inner paradoxes, asking the deeper questions, and much more.
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“When we are encountering another person, they’re also encountering us. And I think that’s something that we forget.”
-timone davis
timone davis
ABOUT THE GUEST
timone davis is a cradle Catholic who was a “pewster” until she discovered that the uselessness of the Church was because she wasn’t giving anything of herself. After committing to getting involved, her life changed. Her first ministry was with the RCIA, where she not only welcomed others into the Church, but also revitalized her own spirituality.
After working for the Archdiocese of Chicago as the coordinator of ReCiL – Reclaiming Christ in Life Young Adult Ministry, timone co-founded PEACE centered WHOLENESS with her husband Orlando, where they are blending clinical counseling and spiritual companioning.
timone is an associate professor in the Institute of Pastoral Studies at Loyola University Chicago and an instructor in New Frontiers in Preaching Academy at Aquinas Institute of Theology. In her spare time, she serves as the Associate Convener of the Black Catholic Theological Symposium.
timone’s dynamic energy and deep spirituality enhance her brand of teaching that engages one’s spirit through the use of storytelling. No matter the occasion, timone’s mission is to help others open their hearts and minds to the soul-saving power of God’s Grace, Love and Mercy.
*dr. timone davis uses lower case letters in the spelling of her name to indicate her willingness to embody the creedal assertion in John 3:30 in her everyday living.
You can find dr. timone davis’ preaching at her podcast, Skinny Thoughts on Christ’s Peace.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
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48 min
November 06, 2025 Vincent Noth: food and kinship
Episode 97 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with Vincent Noth, executive director of the Kinship Community Food Center in Milwaukee. They explore faith, segregation, inequality, systemic racialized poverty, mystical experience, food as entry point to community, mutuality, accompaniment, and much more.
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“The gospel germinates in the brokenness of our lives. And when our lives, when our woundedness, is being cultivated and nourished with the other people around us, and when we can be authentic and messy….the Eucharistic life is flowing through us into one another.”
-Vincent Noth
Vincent Noth
ABOUT THE GUEST
Vincent Noth, a Milwaukee native, grew up attending public school on the northside. He has been the Executive Director of the Kinship Community Food Center (formerly Riverwest Food Pantry) since 2013. He has worked in Milwaukee’s urban service and nonprofit sector since 1999, as the Director of Programs for Summit Educational Association and as Pastor of the Youth and Family Ministries for Eastbrook Church. He served as a community and organization development consultant with the Peace Corps in Eastern Europe. He holds a B.F.A. from Carnegie Mellon University and a M.A. in Religion from Trinity International University. Vincent and his wife Jessica have lived in the Riverwest-Harambee community since 2001.
Learn more about Kinship Community Food Center at kinshipmke.org.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
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45 min
October 23, 2025 Michele Dunne, OFS: kinship and conversion
Episode 96 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh. In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with Michele Duane, OFS, executive director of the Franciscan Action Network (FAN). They explore secular Franciscanism, activism, the interests of government vs. the interests of gospel, Franciscan discernment, kinship, interior conversion, and much more.
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“If I had to use one word to say, you know, what is it at the root of the Franciscan tradition that that we can bring that’s needed in the world today? The word I would use is kinship.”
-Michele Dunne
Michele Dunne
You can find out more about Franciscan Action Network at www.franciscanaction.org and on Instagram @franciscannet.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Michele Dunne is a Secular Franciscan and executive director of the Franciscan Action Network (FAN). Before joining FAN, she worked for the U.S. Department of State and at think tanks including the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. She and her husband have two young adult children and live in Washington DC.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
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41 min
October 09, 2025 Matthew Sitman: Ideology and Mercy
Episode 95 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh. In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with author and podcast host Matthew Sitman. They explore conversion to Catholicism, the breadth and universality of the Catholic Church, humility and openness, cancel culture, Pope Francis, mercy, ideology, relationships, being a gay Catholic, ritual and wordless gestures, and much more.
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"We give ourselves excuses to dismiss people, to not see them, not see the reality of their lives. And that's just something I don't think we're permitted as Christians."
-Matthew Sitman
Matthew Sitman
You can find more of Matthew Sitman @matthewsitman on X/Twitter.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Matthew Sitman is a writer in New York City and the co-host of the podcast Know Your Enemy, a guide to the right by two leftists. Prior to writing and podcasting full-time, he was associate editor of Commonweal magazine for six years. He was received into the Catholic Church as an adult—this fall he'll have been Catholic for a decade.
Listen to Matt and his Know Your Enemy co-host Sam Adler Bell talk about Pope Francis here.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
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55 min
September 25, 2025 Cole Arthur Riley: embodiment and memory
Episode 94 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with author and poet Cole Arthur Riley. They explore embodiment, resisting meritocracy, story, collective memory, letter writing, resistance, the tension between practice and belief, interiority, and much more.
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"I think we can ask ourselves, who benefits from us being disembodied in this country? Government leaders, the ultra wealthy who need us to work more and more and more for less and less wages. And I think you can ask a similar question about memory. Who in this country benefits from our forgetting? There are systems that have everything to gain from our disembodiment, just as there are systems that have everything to gain from this willful amnesia."
-Cole Arthur Riley
Cole Arthur Riley
You can find more of Cole Arthur Riley on Instagram @blackliturgies, on Facebook @blackliturgist, and at her website, colearthurriley.com.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Cole Arthur Riley is a writer and poet. She is the author of the NYT bestsellers, This Here Flesh: Spirituality, Liberation, and the Stories that Make Us and Black Liturgies: Prayers, Poems, and Meditations for Staying Human. Her writing has been featured in The Atlantic, Guernica, and The Washington Post. Cole is also the creator and writer of Black Liturgies, a project that integrates spiritual practice with Black emotion, Black literature, and the Black body.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
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51 min
May 08, 2025 Mary Kay McDermott: The Spirit and Song and Dance
Episode 93 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
Thanks for listening to Messy Jesus Business! We're taking our summer break after this episode. Look for new interviews in your podcast feed starting in late September 2025.
In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with Mary Kay McDermott about following the lead of the Spirit, Catholic Worker, intentional community, works of mercy, co-creation, singing into the liminal, the healing power of community song and dance, and more.
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"My great joy is to lead dances where five-year-olds and seventy-five-year-olds are all dancing together with big smiles on their faces, and looking each other in the eye and breathing together and feeling some synchronicity in their movements."
-Mary Kay McDermott
Mary Kay McDermott
Find Mary Kay McDermott's Substack here.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Mary Kay has been a part of the Catholic Worker movement for the last 25 years. She has co-founded several CW intentional communities including the one where she and her family currently live, St. Isidore Catholic Worker Farm in SW WI. Over the past 10 years she has become passionate about and cultivated the skills for building community through dance, song, and movement that is accessible and inclusive for all. As an American folk dance leader/caller she enjoys leading contra, circle, and square dances that unite people of all ages and abilities. She leads a community singing group that sings joyful, diverse, easy-to-memorize songs in a no practice, no performance experience that boosts energy and enlivens spirits. In addition, Mary Kay teaches mindful movement yoga classes that blend breath and movement, and encourage relaxation and inner peace. In all of her modalities, Mary Kay’s overarching goal is to cultivate experiences where people feel a deeper connection to body, mind, spirit, and community.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
BE SOCIAL:
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Twitter: @messyjesusbiz
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42 min
April 24, 2025 Sr. Dr. Chero Chuma: Discomfort and Radical Hospitality
Episode 92 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.
In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh, FSPA talks with Sr. Dr. Chero Chuma about privilege, racism, surrender, discomfort, mental health and homelessness, human dignity, radical hospitality, burnout, therapy, and messiness.
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"We are called to go beyond what we know or what we think our capacity is, knowing that within us...God who then created us will provide what we need."
-Sr. Dr. Chero Chuma
Sr. Dr. Chero Chuma
Find Sr. Dr. Chero Chuma's congregation at csjp.org.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Sister Chero Chuma, CSJP, DNP, is a Sister of Saint Joseph of Peace and a Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP). Sr. Chero is the Director for Vocations in the USA and has been involved in the healthcare field for over 22 years. She continues to serve as a per diem psychiatric provider at Seattle’s Crisis Solutions Center where she diagnoses and treats people with mental illness. Sr. Chero is a University of Washington graduate with a Doctor of Nursing Practice degree and a WWAMI AHEC Scholar. She is also a Seattle University graduate with a dual bachelor’s degree in nursing and theology and religious studies. She uses her education and experiences to educate many on matters of faith and mental health.
MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh.
Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.
Email us at [email protected]
BE SOCIAL:
https://www.facebook.com/MessyJesusBusiness
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MessyJesusBusiness
Twitter: @messyjesusbiz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/messyjesusbusiness
SUPPORT US:
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41 min

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