What if your clutter isn’t a housekeeping problem — but a heartbreak problem? In this honest conversation, bestselling author, speaker and creator Kathi Lipp joins Tonya Kubo to unpack the emotional weight of “too much stuff” and the radical act of building a community where shame isn’t welcome, but you are.

Together, they trace the roots of Clutter Free Academy — a Facebook group that grew from a six-week Bible study into a sanctuary for thousands of people who thought they were too messy to belong anywhere. What emerged is one of the kindest corners of the internet, built not on judgment but on compassion, humor, and relentless kindness.

Episode Highlights

• [03:28] Who Kathi’s “freaks” really are — and why clutter makes us feel less than
• [06:50] From books to Bible study to community: how Clutter Free began
• [09:48] The biggest misunderstanding about “cluttery people”
• [13:09] Fear, guilt, and shame — and how they keep us stuck
• [20:35] Do cluttery people isolate themselves, or is it survival?
• [27:54] How the Clutter Free Facebook group was born (and why it never closed)
• [32:51] The power of kindness as the first step to transformation
• [36:59] Freak Flags Fly: Kathi on humor, chickens, and McDonald’s Diet Coke

Leading with Kindness and CompassionClutter Isn’t About Stuff

Kathi reminds us that clutter is rarely just about misplaced belongings. It’s about the emotions attached to them: fear of needing something someday, guilt over who gave it to us, and shame over money spent. When we treat clutter like a moral failing, we only dig people deeper into isolation.

The Kindness Cure

Unlike programs that shame or overwhelm, Clutter Free Academy is built on what Kathi calls “assaulting people with kindness.” It’s a space where compassion disarms self-criticism, and where belonging becomes the first step toward transformation.

Community as Survival

Many people who struggle with clutter avoid in-person church groups or workshops focused on home organization because signing up feels like outing themselves. Online community created a safer alternative. The Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group is a place where anonymity lowers the barrier to entry, and kindness keeps people coming back.

Built for Cluttery People, by Cluttery People

Kathi and Tonya both know clutter intimately, and that shared vulnerability has been Clutter Free Academy’s foundation for trust. In this conversation, we see how naming our mess — literal and emotional — creates space for grace, and how building communities on acceptance instead of performance can turn shame into solidarity.

Meet Our Guest

Kathi Lipp is a bestselling author, speaker, podcaster, and the heart behind Clutter Free Academy. Her books (including Sabbath Soup and The Accidental Homesteader) and communities have helped thousands ditch overwhelm and make room for what matters. Whether wrangling chickens or gathering writers at her Red House, Kathi leads with humor, grace, and the kind of real talk that makes you feel like maybe, just maybe, you’re not alone after all.

Meet Our Host

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

Key Quotes

• “Clutter isn’t a housekeeping problem. It’s fear, guilt, and shame stacked in a pile.” — Kathi Lipp
• “Kindness is the first step to transformation.” — Kathi Lipp
• “You don’t have to earn acceptance by cleaning up. Move the laundry aside and sit down anyway.” — Tonya Kubo

Links and Mentions

• Clutter Free Academy Facebook Group
• The Clutter Free Academy Podcast
• Clutter Free by Kathi Lipp
• Clutter Free Home by Kathi Lipp

Support the Show

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You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

Let’s Stay Freaky

• Facebook Group
• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• Podcast Hub

What’s Next

Next week, I’m going even deeper on the subject of clutter. I’m unpacking the roots of shame, imperfection, and radical acceptance. We’ll explore why clutter is never just about “too much stuff,” and what it teaches us about building compassionate communities.