In this episode of MSoM, I'm joined by Ben May the Founder and MD of The Code Company. We talk about the downstream impact of the news media bargaining code and how it changes how publishers do business. Ben has over a decade of experience working with news publishers and media businesses in Australia, particularly from an infrastructure front, building the digital solutions that make news publishers run on the internet. We talk about how media companies should approach Google's News Showcase from an audience, discoverability and data front, the idea of a walled garden approach to hosting news, the real value of Facebook audiences for publishers, and how media companies are already investing in deleveraging the influence and risk associated with big tech.