"The most important conversations about your career are happening when you're not in the room." - Jessica Vogol

In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, host Jacqueline Freedman speaks with Jessica Vogol, former CMO of OfferFit, acquired by Braze, and marketing leader at Movable Ink. Jessica brings a practical lens to hot-button topics in marketing like AI, personalization, and vendor hype.

They dive into what real personalization means today, why marketers should be skeptical of vague AI claims, and how to build high-impact teams without chasing every new tool.

Whether you're in marketing ops, ABM, or leading a team through Martech transformation, this conversation delivers insight without the fluff.

• Why intent data and “agentic AI” may be overhyped

• How to define personalization in a way that actually matters

• What it takes to evolve testing beyond A/B

• How to lead teams that are AI-fluent, not just tool-obsessed

• Where the Martech landscape is headed next

• 00:00 – Intro: Who is Jessica Vogol?

• 00:46 – Rapid Fire: First marketing tool, overrated tech, and ABM

• 02:50 – What “real personalization” looks like in 2025

• 04:12 – AI in marketing: Red flags and realities

• 05:39 – The risk of generic AI-driven content

• 09:52 – Is A/B testing dead? Why decisioning wins

• 18:29 – Hiring for AI fluency & strategic focus

• 23:20 – Martech consolidation: What’s coming

• 25:32 – Final thoughts and guest recommendations

Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions—we may feature you in an upcoming episode. 

"The secret is you don't let the old man in." - Sam Allen, quoting Clint Eastwood

In his first official interview as CEO of Iterable, Sam Allen joins host Jacqueline Freedman for an unfiltered conversation on leadership, AI, and the future of marketing technology. 

Drawing on lessons from the Marine Corps and Salesforce, Sam shares his philosophy of servant leadership, why AI should act as a marketer’s co-pilot, and how companies can move beyond “vendor” status to become trusted advisors. He also reveals his strategic vision for Iterable’s future and what CMOs must do to stay relevant in today’s fast-changing Martech landscape. 

If you’re a marketing leader navigating AI disruption, growth, or organizational change, this episode is for you.

Highlights

• How servant leadership and radical transparency build resilient teams.

• Why AI should empower marketers as a co-pilot, not a replacement.

• The strategic vision behind Sam Allen’s move to Iterable.

• How to win the AI talent war by prioritizing culture.

• Practical steps to strengthen marketing and sales alignment.

• Why Martech stack consolidation is key for long-term growth.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Introduction & Guest Welcome

• 00:43 – Rapid Fire Questions

• 03:42 – Leadership & Personal Insights from the Marine Corps

• 05:33 – Transition to CEO of Iterable

• 09:24 – AI & Innovation at Iterable (Nova)

• 14:11 – Ethics & the AI Talent War

• 18:04 – Moving Beyond Vendor Status with Customer Relationships

• 20:02 – Navigating Budget Constraints

• 21:07 – Standing Out in a Competitive Market

• 22:33 – Personal Insights & Martial Arts

• 23:04 – The Future of Marketing Technology

• 25:13 – Ethical Considerations in AI

• 32:31 – Advice for CMOs & Marketing Leaders

• 37:23 – Podcast Recommendations & Closing Remarks

Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions, we may feature you in an upcoming episode.

Martech is in upheaval: welcome to your must-listen podcast to understand the current state of the Martech industry. 

In this Office Hours episode, hosts Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza dig into the corporate shakeups, shifting power dynamics, and AI debates that are reshaping the industry. 

From Yotpo abruptly shutting down its email arm before the holidays, to Litmus layoffs after acquisition, to Amplitude dethroning Adobe in the latest Forrester Wave, no corner of Martech feels stable. The duo also questions whether analyst firms like Gartner still matter and get "spicy" debating if AI is a powerful copilot or dangerous crutch for marketers. If you're a Martech leader, marketing ops pro, or exec marketing technology bets, this episode gives you the no-BS insights you need to stay ahead. 

Highlights

• Why Yotpo's exit and Litmus layoffs signal deeper risks in Martech.
• How to spot an "overripe Avocado" company and avoid relying on one.
• What Amplitudes's rise means for Adobe and the future of Analytics. 
• Why analyst firms may be losing relevance in an age of distributed authority. 
• The risks and rewards of AI: augmentation vs. outsourcing your thinking.

Timestamps

• 01:19 - Trouble in Email Land: Yotpo shuts down its email business and Litmus faces layoffs after acquisition. 
• 07:15 - The overripe Avocado Theory: How to spot when tech companies are past their prime.
• 09:36 - Analytics Shake-Up: Amplitude rises in Forrester's Wave, Adobe loses ground, and the future of analytics suites. 
• 15:11 - Analyst Firms in Question: Gartner's origins, warning influence, and whether traditional authority still matters.
• 23:50 - The AI Debate: Is GenAI a helpful copilot or a "drug dealer" strategy that erodes critical thinking?
• 30:21 - Subscriber Q&A: Ben from Teachable asks about AI's impact on future marketing leadership. 

Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions - we may feature them in an upcoming episode. 

Are you overwhelmed by the ever-changing world of marketing technology? Searching for clarity, insight, and insider knowledge?

Welcome to Making Sense of Martech, the official podcast from The Martech Weekly, hosted by Juan Mendoza and Jacqueline Freedman.

Each week, we break down the tools, strategies, and trends shaping the future of marketing. You’ll hear candid conversations with top industry leaders in The Hot Seat, and get practical answers to real-world challenges in our Office Hours format. 

What to expect every Wednesday:

• The Hot Seat: Jacqueline interviews leaders at the forefront of Martech, surfacing unfiltered insights and deep analysis on the biggest shifts in the space.
• Office Hours: Juan and Jacqueline tackle the latest news in our industry and questions from our subscribers.

This show delivers the same trusted research and clarity you’ve come to expect from The Martech Weekly. It’s designed to cut through the noise, save you time, and help you lead with confidence.

Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to stay ahead of the curve—and don’t be shy. We’d love your feedback or ideas for what to cover next.

Links & Resources:

• The Martech Weekly Website: https://themartechweekly.com/
• The Martech Weekly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-martech-weekly/

From third-party to first-party: Building a better data foundation

What do you think of when I say “tech start-up?” Those words probably conjure up thoughts of a small team working out of the founder’s garage somewhere in Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, or Cupertino. The reason that image springs to mind is because that is how a bunch of the biggest and most influential tech companies started out over the years. But who started this trend?

Well, it’s not a plucky start-up anymore, but the answer is Hewlett Packard. Way back in 1939, Bill Hewlett and David Packard founded HP in a one-car garage at 367 Addison Avenue, Palo Alto, which is now adorned with a plaque reading: The Birthplace of Silicon Valley. A lot has changed since then: Far from their fledgling days when they produced audio oscillators (which Disney used to test the sound equipment for the movie ‘Fantasia’!), HP is now a multinational IT mainstay.

The original HP split into two companies in 2015: Hewlett Packard Enterprise for enterprise products and services, and HP Inc for its personal computer and printer business. The split between its B2B and B2C customers was reflected in its data architecture. Like many legacy businesses, HP found itself in a situation where it had separate platforms and data stores for commercial and consumer data managed by a plethora of different stakeholders, leading to a severely siloed data landscape.

Over the last few years, HP has overcome these challenges by bringing together its fractured data landscape into a modern, composable data architecture befitting its history as the origin of the Silicon Valley mythology. To understand how HP went about this transformation, The Martech Weekly sat down with Kumar Ram, Global Head of Marketing Data Sciences, and Luis Alonzo, Head of Customer Data Strategy and Engineering. 

Kumar and Luis’s responses have been edited for clarity and congruency.

Welcome to our very first TMW case study! Kicking off this series, we’re featuring Rappi, the Latin American super-app that connects consumers with merchants that sell a wide variety of products, and drivers that can bring those products to their doorstep. The three-sided business is not only a logistical challenge, but also a Martech challenge.

Rappi’s array of marketing campaigns and offers, driven by a sophisticated deep-linking strategy, is crucial to its success. It did, however, lead to the need for an impossibly large amount of QA to ensure the successful delivery of customer experience workflows, ensuring that would-be customers don’t fall off their buying journey at any point, from clicking on an ad through to landing in the app and making a purchase.

Leading the Martech and Adtech practice at Rappi is Satya Ramachandran, who brings over 12 years of Martech experience to the table, having previously worked as a data engineer building distributed databases. 

In this case study, we’ll walk through how Satya not only scaled the Martech QA process using computer vision and robots, but turned QA into a profit-driving initiative with champions throughout the business, rather than just a cost center.

Satya’s responses have been edited for clarity and congruency.

Listen on⁠⁠⁠ Apple⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠ Spotify⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠ Google⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠everywhere else.⁠⁠⁠

• Go here for ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠show notes, links, and resources.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Follow Juan Mendoza on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
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Making Sense of Martech's very own Juan Mendoza on looking ahead to the rest of 2024

A conversation with Tim Mason & Sarah Jarvis from Eagle Eye.

In this episode we’re joined by Tim Mason and Sarah Jarvis . Tim is the CEO of Eagle Eye, a leading loyalty and personalization platform and a top 10 TMW 100 global innovator. Tim has spent more than 30 years building loyalty strategies in retail, including working as the Deputy CEO and CMO of Tesco UK PLC. Sarah Jarvis is a senior marketer, also at Eagle Eye, and a regular contributor to Forbes UK. Both are the authors of the recently released 2nd edition of Omnichannel Retail: How to Build Winning Stores in a Digital World.

In this episode, we delve into the multifaceted concept of Omnichannel, exploring its definition, and we hear Tim and Sarah’s case for its importance. We also discuss the ethical considerations businesses face in the pursuit of omniscient customer knowledge, offering insights into responsible practices amid growing data privacy concerns. Additionally, we explore successful examples of companies implementing omnichannel strategies and examine the challenges organizations encounter when introducing omnichannel to their businesses, along with strategies to overcome internal hurdles.

Listen on⁠⁠ Apple⁠⁠,⁠⁠ Spotify⁠⁠,⁠⁠ Google⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠everywhere else.⁠⁠

• Go here for ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠show notes, links, and resources.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Follow Juan Mendoza on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
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• You can find Tim Mason on LinkedIn and Sarah Jarvis also on LinkedIn

A conversation with Rohit Maheswaran.

In this episode we’re joined by Rohit Maheswaran, the co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Lifesight a marketing measurement platform offering a suite of attribution, MMM (Mixed Media Modelling), and incrementality tools.

We tackle the shifting sands of attribution and how marketers are using different models and tools as the ways of last click and multi-channel attribution fade away and more marketers are embracing a back-to-the-future style of measurement using experimentation and MMM.

Listen on⁠ Apple⁠,⁠ Spotify⁠,⁠ Google⁠, and ⁠everywhere else.⁠

• Go here for ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠show notes, links, and resources.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Follow Juan Mendoza on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
• Listen on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Apple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Google⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠everywhere else.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• You can find Rohit on LinkedIn.

A conversation with Cory Munchbach.

In this episode we’re joined by Cory Munchbach. Cory is the CEO of BlueConic, a leading Customer Data Platform.

In this episode we talk about Cory’s recent journey to becoming the CEO of the company, what it really looks like to lead the vision and strategy of a private equity backed company, growing and scaling a product right in the middle of one of the hottest categories in the Martech industry, and her outlook for the coming year in the CDP category.

Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, and everywhere else.

• Go here for ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠show notes, links, and resources.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Follow Juan Mendoza on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
• Listen on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Apple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Google⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠everywhere else.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• You can find Cory on ⁠LinkedIn⁠.