What we owe the incarcerated — and the communities holding on outside

What if the punishment wasn’t the prison sentence itself, but the isolation that follows? In this raw and unflinching conversation, writer and podcaster Rachel Allen joins Tonya Kubo to pull back the curtain on life behind bars — not only for those incarcerated, but also for the families left standing in fluorescent visitation rooms.

Rachel shares how she lost nearly everyone in her life when her husband was incarcerated, the hidden community that forms in waiting rooms, and the burden of secrets she carried until she found safe places to speak them. Together, they tackle the uncomfortable truth: our prison system isn’t just broken, it’s designed to dehumanize. And yet, in the darkest corners, belonging still finds a way.

Episode Highlights

• [03:23] Growing up “othered” and the soft spot it created for outsiders
• [07:08] The fear of revealing her husband’s incarceration — and losing everyone
• [12:19] Creating Beyond Broken and exposing systemic abuse
• [17:38] Why visitation is anything but “pleasant”
• [20:21] Finding fragile community in visitation waiting rooms
• [26:10] But don’t criminals get what they deserve?
• [35:58] How to know who deserves grace
• [39:29] First steps for rethinking incarceration
• [41:05] Why you are not as alone as you think

Belonging Stolen, Belonging Rebuilt

When her husband entered the federal prison system, Rachel’s life imploded. Nearly everyone she knew disappeared overnight, leaving her shattered and alone. Out of that devastation, she built new forms of belonging — both in the fragile, fluorescent-lit visitation community and in her work giving voice to those society would rather erase.

The Hidden Labor of Families

Prison doesn’t just punish the incarcerated; it punishes their families. Rachel exposes the endless advocacy work, bureaucratic battles, and humiliating visitation processes that spouses (usually wives) endure just to stay connected. Survival demands community, even in places designed to keep people apart.

Grace, Humor, and Humanity

Despite the heaviness, Rachel insists on humor and grace as survival tools. From the woman unknowingly carrying a “Sooie, Run, Pig” purse into visitation, to the deep compassion she extends even to those branded “undeserving,” Rachel reminds us that belonging is about humanity, not perfection.

Meet Our Guest

Rachel Allen is an Appalachian-born writer and host of Beyond Broken, a podcast that dares to look straight into the brokenness of the U.S. prison system and imagine something better. A journalist-turned-marketer-turned-memoirist, Rachel has written for global brands, tiny nonprofits, and everyone in between. Her essays and upcoming memoir, Batshit, dig deep into the uncomfortable, beautiful truth of what it means to be human and still fight like hell to belong.

Meet Our Host

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

Key Quotes

• “On any given day I could be talking to an eight-figure entrepreneur or a homeless person—both are equally valuable to me.” — Rachel Allen
• “There is nothing someone can do that makes me see them as less than human.” — Rachel Allen
• “Belonging isn’t about being included. It’s about being expected: Of course you’re here. We’ve been waiting for you.” — Tonya Kubo

Links and Mentions

• Heather Pirtle and the First Network
• Rachel’s upcoming memoir Batshit
• Beyond Broken on Substack
• RachelCatherineAllen.com
• Rachel on Instagram
• Rachel on LinkedIn

Support the Show

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Let’s Stay Freaky

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• Podcast Hub

What’s Next

Rachel’s interview left me wondering about whose suffering matters, and which lives we consider worthy of grieving. Episode 5 explores the idea of dehumanization further and how it affects beliefs about those who look, believe, live and choose differently from ourselves.