In this episode, following up on my conversation about Byzantium with Anthony Kaldellis and leading to my conversation about democratic Athens with Clif Mark, I talk to James Corke-Webster and Lisa Eberle about their work on Roman governance. In contrast to images of Rome as a centralized and bureaucratic monolith, James and Lisa explain how Rome functioned as a network of cities, linked more by soft power than by military might - although the soldiers showed up if the wealth stopped flowing to the imperial city. You can also hear why so many Roman buildings became ruins before they were even finished, about the Roman tradition of mass protest, and how enlightenment thinkers influenced our view of the empire.