Lulie asks David Deutsch probing questions about the 'fun criterion', and they explore why it's necessary for rational thought.

They also discuss:

- Difference between mindless fun and fun-criterion 'fun'

- What about conflicts between explicit theories and what seems fun?

- What is suffering?

- Is anger good?

- Debating whether anger is an appropriate response to external suffering

- Creativity, conflicting theories and problems

- Do we need bodies and feelings to think?

- What makes the difference between enjoyable and suffering situations?

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