John Wing is a comedian and writer and all-around good guy--and also not someone whose path would have crossed with Joe's before our politics got turned up side-down (he's a liberal progressive! And a Canadian!). In this conversation, John and Joe cover a lot of ground, ranging from how both sides have a problem with "decreeing," rather than listening, how to square comedy and culture with our collective political life, and whether the conversation around "cancel culture" actually comes down to consequences.