Jon and Dirk are joined by designer David Heron to discuss his work on the Legend of the Five Rings CCG (Collectible Card Game). Along the way, they examine the business side of building a CCG. The discussion then shifts to deckbuilding and drafting games, with a particular focus on Dominion and 7 Wonders and the design flaws that prevent Dirk and David from enjoying them. At the end of the episode Jon teases a big announcement that will be made next week.