Original title: Modern Day Apostles and Prophets?

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the eleventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 6-12) covers Matthew 9-10, Mark 5, and Luke 9 - and is titled "These Twelve Jesus Sent Forth".

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Note 1: There are two prophet-presidents of the LDS church named Joseph Fielding Smith; one (Sr.) is typically called Joseph F. Smith (1838-1918), and the other (Jr.) is typically called Joseph Fielding Smith (1876-1972). They are father-son, and indeed - were Hyrum Smith's son and grandson, respectively. When the Reed Smoot Hearings are mentioned, it is Joseph F. Smith (or Joseph Fielding Smith, Sr.) who is being referred to.

Note 2: Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5; 18.20-22); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1John 4.1-3)

Sources:

Seminary Manual (here and here)

Nourishing and Bearing Your Testimony (Gary Stevenson); some of this emphasis, though less emotion-based, came from Joseph Smith himself who taught that: "Salvation cannot come without revelation; it is in vain for anyone to minister without it...Whenever salvation has been administered, it has been by testimony." (TPJS, p. 160)

The Ongoing Restoration (LeGrand Curtis); also here. Does this actually sound like a conservative religion? Don't mistake the mere value for decorum for the conservative mind toward preservation.

D&C 84 (false prophecy about New Jerusalem)

• JD 9.71 (George A. Smith)
• JD 10.344 (George Q. Cannon)
• JD 13. 360,362 (Orson Pratt)

D&C 114 (false prophecy about apostle David W. Patten - who would die Oct. 25, 1838 in the Battle of Crooked River; also see DHC 3.170-175)

D&C 130 (expectation that Jesus would come back in around 1890)

• Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)

It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)

Joseph Smith's Instructions to the Twelve Apostles (TPJS, pp. 155-163; given on July 2,1839 to those "who were about to depart on their mission to Great Britain".)

Oliver Cowdery Commission

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges

Jesus the Christ by James Talmage (ch. 16, under Disciples and Apostles, and footnote 2 - where the reason and precedent is given as to why they are addressed as "Elder so-and-so", and not as "Apostle so-and-so"; also, notice Talmage's claim that it was only "knowledge" that was requisite - when Peter, in the Acts passage Talmage himself cites - actually requires "men who have accompanied us during all the time...beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us." The number 12 was actually fixed to those historical twelve, Judas was replaced not for death but for betrayal/apostasy, and the requirement was one of someone being an historical eyewitness to the entire earthly ministry of Jesus. Talmage himself would not qualify, as he himself should've understood from the citations he himself presents.)

1 Nephi 12.9; compare D&C 20.38-44 and D&C 107.26,33

• Also note the role and authority of the seventy in D&C 107, even stating that they are "equal in authority to that of the Twelve" (v.26); Joseph Smith stated that "[t]he Seventies are to be taken from the quorum of Elders, and are not to be High Priests. They are subject to the direction and dictation of the Twelve, who have the keys of the ministry." (TPJS, p. 112) He also stated that the Council of the Seventy was "ordained to that apostleship." (D.H.C. 2.346)

• The Twelve Apostles were/are to be "acknowledged" as "Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and special witnesses to all the nations of the earth." And they were to preach, not preside over churches. (TPJS, p. 109)

• "President Smith proposed the following question: 'What importance is there attached to the calling of the Twelve Apostles, different from the other callings of the Church?...President Joseph Smith, Jun., gave the following decision: They are the Twelve Apostles, who are called to the office of the Traveling High Council, who are to preside over the churches of the Saints, among the Gentiles, and where there is no presidency established; and they are to travel and preach among the Gentiles, until the Lord shall command them to go to the Jews. They are to hold the keys of this ministry, to unlock the door of the Kingdom of heaven unto all nations, and to preach the Gospel to every creature. This is the power, authority, and virtue of their apostleship." (TPJS, p.74) Smith also warned: "Be careful about sending boys to preach the Gospel to the world; if they go let them be accompanied by some one who is able to guide them..." (TPJS, p. 43)

JD 19.230-237 (George Q. Cannon)

JD 10.214; JD 24.236 (Wilford Woodruff) (also see D&C 46.2)

JD 13.292 (George A. Smith)

President-Prophet Joseph F. Smith, recalling the last remarks by President-Prophet Lorenzo Snow, stated, in part: "He had been thinking of late whether we were justified in keeping at home the Apostles and Seventies the way we were now doing. They were really ministers to the nations of the earth; their duties were clearly marked out by the Lord, and until the Gospel was preached thoroughly to the world he doubted whether the Savior would come, as the preaching of the Gospel to the world is certainly part of the work that has to be done before He does come. The duties of the high priests were also clearly marked out, their duties being to labor at home...

…the President said he very much regretted that it should have become necessary for him to call attention of the Apostles to their plain duty, that they should have sensed the situation themselves without rendering it necessary for him to point it out to them. Upon this particular occasion he said there was no doubt in his mind that the time was near at hand when the Savior would make His appearance, and he trembled at the thought that the Apostles were spending so much of their time in matters that should be attended to by others, while so little comparatively was being done in their own line of calling."

It is also interesting to note that Brigham Young, several times, referred to himself as "an apostle of Joseph Smith". (JD 3.212, JD 5.296, 5.332, JD 9.364) This connects to other views sometimes held by LDS/Mormons.

Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (esp. ch.'s 2, 7, 11, 13, 17); also here and here.

Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera (esp. ch. 3; noting also the interesting point that even Joseph was somewhat ambiguous on the point - stating "The Twelves, and their authority, which is next to the present Presidency", yet that "also the Twelve are not subject to any other than the First Presidency, viz., 'myself,' said the Prophet, 'Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams, who are now my Counselors, and where I am not, there is no First Presidency over the Twelve." So, the Twelve is "next to the First Presidency"...unless Joseph is around. TPJS, pp.104-105, 190)

Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn (esp. pp.142-144, 167, 223-224)

Power from on High: The Development of the Mormon Priesthood by Gregory A. Prince

The Mormon Jesus by John Turner (esp. pp. 74, 80, 83-88, 110-115,143)

"This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell (see esp. pp. 79-80, 89)

Dan Vogel (here and here)

An Earnest Plea to LDS (Jason Wallace)

Letters to a Mormon Elder by James White

Simply Put (Barry Cooper)

Article by Nathan Busenitz

Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham

Canon Revisited: Establishing the Origins and Authority of the New Testament Canon; The Question of Canon: Challenging the Status Quo in the New Testament Debate by Michael Kruger (also here and here)

John Calvin's Letter to Cardinal Sadoleto

Who Needs the Church? by Terry Johnson

Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen