Alyssa Battistoni joins me to discuss her new book Free Gifts: Capitalism and the Politics of Nature. Capitalist theory generally describes nature as a "free gift." If gifts are already free, why does capitalism have to claim that nature is a "free gift"? And why does capitalism keep declaring that nature is "worth" some billions or trillions of dollars? Alyssa and I discuss the tragic, yet comic, misunderstanding of nature by capitalism, and other ways to think about nature besides the economic.