Matt Ginsberg, author, teacher and entrepreneur once tried to sell to London intelligent traffic lights to speed up the traffic.

At Transport for London, MD Leon Daniels surprised him by declining since that was the opposite of what was wanted.

A specialist in AI (artificial intelligence) since 1983, Matt chats with Leon about why we travel too much, but why some things will have to remain face-to-face.

Over a long lunch they cover a massive range of topics, from body language on Zoom to protecting personal data, the good things that are happening and why autonomous cars will not happen, but drones will…