In the 1970s and 80s, the US Navy maintained a robust adversary force to provide air-to-air training for its fighter squadrons, proving it had learned from experiences in Vietnam.

Our guest was an F-14 Tomcat pilot who served as an adversary, flying the A-4 Skyhawk and the F-21 Kfir – an Israeli product based on the sleek Mirage 5, with a powerful J79 engine.

Retired Commander Bob “BB” Brauer talks about close-in combat as a Tomcat pilot, and what it was like to fight against the big fighter. He describes tricks the adversaries used and recalls his encounters with famous Tomcat pilots Hoser and Snort, as well as fighters of other services.