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John Huey and Michael Tingley have a conversation with a prominent person in Australian Secular Recovery, Mick Shiels, who discussed his ideas regarding moving forward there in a fully secular way without reliance on any dogmatic recovery program or movement. You can join Mick every Saturday at 7:00 PM Eastern USA time on Zoom for his new, unaffiliated, Secular Recovery meeting, Abstinent Atheists Australia, Meeting ID 83192206790 Passcode 311200.