In this candid and thought-provoking episode of Believe, Behave, Become, Elliot and Rich sit down with John Gochnour, Chief Operating Officer of The Pennant Group, for a leadership conversation that hits close to home—both literally and figuratively.

From rafting mishaps on the rivers of Idaho to helping build a nationwide service model from scratch, John reflects on more than a decade of leadership lessons. What began as a drive to be the go-to problem solver gradually evolved into a deeper truth: real leadership means building capable teams, letting go of control, and trusting others to thrive.

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