In this episode of DEI Will Not DIE, Bree Gorman is joined by Dr. Judy Lundy to explore what becomes possible when organisations build a structure that doesn't rely on a traditional hierarchy.

Judy shares her lifelong connection to equity, from being told at 14 that she couldn't train guide dogs because she was a girl, to her current work teaching and researching diversity, equity and inclusion. Together, Bree and Judy unpack how traditional hierarchical workplaces can unintentionally limit inclusion, even when there is a strong intent to do better.

The conversation challenges the idea that inclusion can be achieved through surface-level initiatives alone. Instead, it highlights the role of organisational design in shaping equity outcomes, and why leaders need to be willing to share power if they want to see meaningful change.

A thoughtful and practical conversation about moving beyond performative DEI, creating environments where people feel safe to contribute, and taking tangible steps toward more inclusive ways of working.

For tools, coaching, and support: breegorman.com

Show notes and resources: breegorman.com/podcast