DEI Will Not Die

Bree goes solo on perimenopause and menopause at work, starting with their own experience as a trans non-binary person seeking care in medical settings where the language (and the decor) assume you're a woman, and how perimenopause and ADHD combine to affect day-to-day capacity. From there they take on the standard workplace response: why a specific menopause policy or dedicated leave can backfire when taking it flags you as less capable, why genuine flexibility and outcome-focused management work better for everyone, and how leaders, language and sensory environments either reduce the stigma or feed it.

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In this episode of DEI Will Not DIE, Bree Gorman sits down with Professor Nareen Young, Director of the UTS Centre for Indigenous People and Work, to go inside Gari Yala 2. Designed and led by Indigenous researchers, it's the national survey of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander employees' workplace experiences. They discuss why "cultural load" is better described with the term unpaid workplace demands, why six of the ten truths haven't shifted since 2020, why identified roles still matter, and why organisations need to stop relying on the business case for DEI and start applying the Racial Discrimination Act.

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Prof Dimitria Groutsis and Prof Jane O'Leary have spent 15 years researching how Australian workplaces measure (or fail to measure) ethno-racial diversity. In this episode, they unpack why Australia still has no equivalent to WGEA's gender reporting for race, how sanitised language like "culturally diverse" has let organisations avoid the word race altogether, and why the way a question is worded can change the data it produces. They share practical advice on collecting granular, self-identified data without flattening people into stereotyped categories, and make the case for a legally mandated approach to counting race at work.

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Bree goes solo on LGBTIQA+ inclusion in 2026: what's changed, what's stayed the same, and why organisations pulling back right now is the opposite of what needs to happen. Drawing on this year's focus groups and consultations, they unpack what employees are asking for (hint: it's not another Pride morning tea) including irreversible public commitments, visible queer leadership, secure and purposeful data collection, and low cost, high impact low effort moves that create opportunities for social connection. Plus a personal reflection on coming out in a workplace for the first time, and why intersectionality has to sit at the centre of this work, not the edges.

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Professor Michael Flood joins Bree to unpack why engaging men is essential to gender equity work, not an afterthought. They cover why men often fail to recognise everyday sexism, the "social norms" trick that gets more men speaking up, and a care-based lens on violence prevention that reframes accountability without losing compassion. The conversation also digs into why parental leave uptake among men remains so low, and what the economics behind that reveal about where real structural change needs to happen.

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Bree talks with William Ward-Boas, a proud Autistic and First Nations advocate with intellectual disability from the LGBTIQA+ community, about what genuine co-design requires and why most organisations aren't actually doing it. Drawing upon over seven years' experience across the advocacy sector, William draws a sharp line between consultation and co-design, unpacks the trauma embedded in asking people to share lived experience without knowing where it will lead, and reflects on actively sharing power as they moved from project worker to board chair. The episode closes on William's framework: being invited into a room isn't influence, being consulted isn't being listened to, and being present isn't having power.

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Andrea joins Bree for an honest conversation about what anti-racism actually requires inside Australian workplaces, and why most organisations get it wrong. Drawing on her own experience as a woman of colour navigating largely white public sector organisations, Andrea unpacks the difference between individual racist behaviour and structural racism, why "I don't see colour" invalidates the people it's meant to reassure, and who really gets to decide what equality looks like. The conversation turns to workplace complaints processes, and Andrea is direct about the harm they cause: all-white investigators and decision-makers, the expectation that you educate the organisation about your own experience, and the people who quietly stop reporting because they know it will go nowhere. A grounded look at what leaders need to do differently, from racial literacy to actually handing over power.

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In this episode of DEI Will Not DIE, Bree Gorman takes on one of the most charged topics in the field right now: artificial intelligence, and what it means for diversity, equity and inclusion. Rather than landing on whether AI is "good" or "bad" for inclusion, Bree makes the case that it is both at once. It creates genuine access and equity for people who have long been excluded, while at the same time amplifying bias and challenging the job security of the most marginalised employees. Bree draws on their own experience as an ADHD practitioner, the realities of AI in recruitment, and research showing how biased systems can make the people who use them more biased over time. They also look ahead to the uneven impact of job losses, and why reskilling and support can't be an afterthought. A grounded, practical conversation about using these tools with your eyes open: holding onto the equity gains while actively designing against the harms.

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Bree's first international guest, Carrie Sawyer, joins to talk about her book Ripples of Inclusion. a question-and-answer guide to anti-racism that grew out of the conversations people were having after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. Carrie and Bree dig into why "can't we just get along?" is more loaded than it sounds, how privilege becomes harmful through gaslighting rather than its existence alone, and what allyship looks like beyond good intentions. Carrie also shares the story of her six-year-old niece's Black Lives Matter lemonade stand and what happened when the neighbourhood showed up.

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In this episode of DEI Will Not DIE, Bree Gorman is joined by Dr. Judy Lundy to explore what becomes possible when organisations build a structure that doesn't rely on a traditional hierarchy.

Judy shares her lifelong connection to equity, from being told at 14 that she couldn't train guide dogs because she was a girl, to her current work teaching and researching diversity, equity and inclusion. Together, Bree and Judy unpack how traditional hierarchical workplaces can unintentionally limit inclusion, even when there is a strong intent to do better.

The conversation challenges the idea that inclusion can be achieved through surface-level initiatives alone. Instead, it highlights the role of organisational design in shaping equity outcomes, and why leaders need to be willing to share power if they want to see meaningful change.

A thoughtful and practical conversation about moving beyond performative DEI, creating environments where people feel safe to contribute, and taking tangible steps toward more inclusive ways of working.

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Show notes and resources: breegorman.com/podcast