This part of the interview spotlights the relationship between Zac and Ralph that ensured success in Hermosa and in Hawaii after these two men passed the baton of leadership. If you're contemplating succession you might take notes on some of the subtleties involved in the actual handoff.

For some reason, this church has always been blessed with real estate. In 1975, while Ralph was pastor, they bought the former bowling alley for $350k. It had cost $2 million to build just 13 years earlier but was an abandoned wreck. Under Zac the church became the largest real estate holder in Hermosa Beach, constantly plowing profits back toward ministry. The church has multiplied in the United States, Europe and Africa while generously underwriting the first few months of Ralph's ministry in Hope Chapel Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.

These two old men offer an example of how succession can work when it works well.

Don't miss episode 3, next week when you'll learn how the simple model developed in the earliest days of Hope Chapel worked as well under Zac's leadership as it has for Ralph.

For a more complete understanding of this you might enjoy Ralph's book, Let Go of the Ring: The Hope Chapel Story.

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