Nobody Likes Babies, originally meant to be the season finale, was a turning point for the show – There’s no going back after the events in this episode, with Fitz’ dramatic choice. Katie and Guillermo unpack the twists and turns with the esteemed Debra Mooney, AKA Supreme Court Justice Verna Thornton, including diving into Debra’s acting history and what she was really doing in the coffin during her final scene… Plus, are Katie and Guillermo officially getting old (and sleepy)?

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