Lord Nigel Crisp is the expert when it comes to our health service: because he was Chief Executive of NHS England and Permanent Secretary of the Department of Health simultaneously, during Tony Blair's government.

A graduate in philosophy from Cambridge, he released his book "Health Is Made At Home: Hospitals are for Repairs." This insightful book calls for a rethink of healthcare, and highlights the local organisations that mean people won't need expensive healthcare in future.

In this episode, Nigel brings warmth and positivity to the conversation. He and Zack discuss how health creation is promoted by community groups, the importance of a sense of control, how perverse incentives prevent health creation in our system, and how to realign government, politics and healthcare to build a truly health society.