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In this episode, we get to speak with Maggie Appleton, Art Director & UX Designer at egghead.io. We discuss the ethos of Digital Gardening and the value of cultivating ideas in public. We also dive into Maggie’s digital anthropology work and discuss how visual metaphors better shape our understanding of technology.
Brian Hinton: [00:00:00] I’m Brian
Frederick Weiss: and I’m Frederick Philip von Weiss. And
[00:00:46] Brian Hinton: [00:00:46] and do tech
[00:00:52] Frederick Weiss: Yeah, thanks
[00:01:15] Brian Hinton: We’d like to thank
[00:01:43] I love that name. An online destination that their developer advocates run
[00:01:52] Frederick Weiss: [00:01:52] Yes.
[00:02:00] we have an amazing guest today. We have Art Director. Writer, Designer,
[00:02:21] Maggie Appleton: [00:02:21] Thanks.
[00:02:22] Thanks for having me on. I’ll also say I’m a mediocre version of
[00:02:31] Frederick Weiss: [00:02:31] You are a
[00:02:43] Maggie Appleton: It’s not too
[00:03:04] So we’re still, you can’t go out in groups of like more than 30 or
[00:03:16] Brian Hinton: [00:03:16] you on, oh,
[00:03:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:03:24] Yeah. We
[00:03:41] Yeah. But vaccinations are rolling out. So like I got my first one last
[00:03:49] Brian Hinton: [00:03:49] happening?
[00:03:54] Frederick Weiss: [00:03:54] and what
[00:03:56] Maggie Appleton: [00:03:56] So
[00:04:03] Brian Hinton: [00:04:03] too.
[00:04:04] Frederick Weiss: [00:04:04] Yeah,
[00:04:16] Maggie Appleton: [00:04:16] Yeah. I
[00:04:29] We have some people in Portland. And yet we’ve always just worked
[00:04:54] But work-wise, I was very fortunate. They didn’t change much in my
[00:04:59] Brian Hinton: [00:04:59] I think the
[00:05:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:05:10] Yeah. So
[00:05:17] What exactly do you do at egghead?
[00:05:20] Maggie Appleton: [00:05:20] I
[00:05:37] Who’s, an incredible unicorn who knows everything from react to front
[00:05:55] So I’m on the two ends of the spectrum, right? If you usually have UX
[00:06:05] Frederick Weiss: [00:06:05]
[00:06:09] Maggie Appleton: [00:06:09] Yeah, I,
[00:06:14] The company I work for teaches front end web development. So we teach
[00:06:36] Being a teenager on the internet and customizing my Neopets page and my
[00:06:54] And of course I love the animations and, what would be database, but
[00:07:13] Brian Hinton: [00:07:13] Yeah.
[00:07:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:07:24]
[00:07:28] Brian Hinton: [00:07:28] Yeah.
[00:07:33] Maggie Appleton: [00:07:33] I studied
[00:07:37] I did a, liberal arts school in the U S which was great. And I found out
[00:08:02] So yeah, so I majored in that as an undergraduate. And then of course
[00:08:12] Brian Hinton: [00:08:12] So has that
[00:08:20] Maggie Appleton: [00:08:20] Yeah,
[00:08:27] Brian Hinton: [00:08:27] And for
[00:08:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:08:28] to
[00:08:52] Maggie Appleton: [00:08:52]
[00:08:53] Yeah. I, and it’s funny too, that it came back around with UX design
[00:09:16] So yeah, so once I realized that UX designers were just like
[00:09:29] So yeah, so I’m very much kind of leaning back into my aunt’s
[00:09:35] Frederick Weiss: [00:09:35] maybe it
[00:09:49] Maggie Appleton: [00:09:49] your
[00:09:50] Sure. Yeah, That’s definitely not an obvious thing. Because
[00:10:13] So I started cultural, which is, yeah. Again, the way people behave on
[00:10:31] So it gives you a broad span. But digital anthropologists tend to study
[00:10:52] What is valuable to us? It’s a broad range of things. You’ll study
[00:11:12] Alignment
[00:11:17] like what stickers are shirts and how you’re signaling to the other
[00:11:23] Brian Hinton: [00:11:23] does matter,
[00:11:26] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:26] Yeah.
[00:11:28] Maggie Appleton: [00:11:28] Yeah.
[00:11:43] Brian Hinton: [00:11:43] I’m
[00:11:55] Maggie Appleton: [00:11:55] No, I was
[00:12:06] I’ll just start reading Elise theorists and love it. And it was only,
[00:12:32] Like what is shameful for them and what are their weaknesses and what do
[00:12:45] Frederick Weiss: [00:12:45] Just like
[00:12:53] Maggie Appleton: [00:12:53] Yes.
[00:13:09] Brian Hinton: [00:13:09] That’s
[00:13:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:11] I really
[00:13:28] Telling us what, that’s about and what, you do with those and why, you
[00:13:45] Maggie Appleton: [00:13:45] Sure.
[00:13:56] With my work at egg head when I first got started there, most of what I
[00:14:11] And I came on as the illustrator and it’s the coolest we put out, I
[00:14:34] I really was like, okay, how do you come up with a metaphor? That actually
[00:15:03] Yeah, so and so, some of the weapons yet, these cool illustrations
[00:15:19] Which, everyone, what do you mean by API? What do you mean? It’s one
[00:15:38] And you can only say certain things. You can ask them for certain things
[00:15:56] So that’s like robot weight and robot weight, as we can say, will have
[00:16:14] And you can only be awesome for a limited set of things. So, the
[00:16:31] And there’s tons of qualities about a hypothetical robot Weta that
[00:16:46] So like those qualities are hidden and only the two things, the qualities
[00:16:56] Brian Hinton: [00:16:56] metaphors in
[00:17:23] See it can’t understand it, then we don’t get a lot of that or
[00:17:33] Maggie Appleton: [00:17:33] Yeah.
[00:17:45] we’ll have the audience do that. Okay. Yeah. If you find one, like
[00:17:55] Brian Hinton: [00:17:55] Yeah. I like
[00:18:05] We made it not that gross to
[00:18:08] Maggie Appleton: [00:18:08] look at,
[00:18:26] Won’t really have to kill animals with this idea. We’re just gonna
[00:18:42] So I have a reference folder. It’s just like butcher shops and blood,
[00:18:50] Frederick Weiss: [00:18:50] It looks
[00:18:55] Maggie Appleton: [00:18:55] or your
[00:19:06] Frederick Weiss: [00:19:06]
[00:19:17] I think you guys were coming up with ideas for. Some sandwiches and you
[00:19:34] Maggie Appleton: [00:19:34] Yeah.
[00:19:35] Jason’s wonderful. And he’s incredible at running that show. I
[00:19:46] Frederick Weiss: [00:19:46] Yes,
[00:19:49] Yeah, we had him on a few months ago. Great guy.
[00:19:52] Brian Hinton: [00:19:52] It looks as
[00:20:00] Maggie Appleton: [00:20:00] So
[00:20:30] And people were using this metaphor of gardening, right? So you are going
[00:21:06] And he now works in disinformation studies. Anyway, he wrote this long
[00:21:23] And everyone built their own weird little website and they linked to all
[00:21:36] And like you know if anyone else went to that website, you saw the same
[00:21:54] When you sit back and a stream of content is delivered to you and your
[00:22:11] So actually we listened to him more than my feet, a little bit, but things
[00:22:25] The New York Times actually just made a film. Was it? Last week, or this
[00:22:40] And so this is a long way of saying gardening is this idea of getting back
[00:23:06] What if you can’t tell? But coming back to this idea of you have your
[00:23:26] And you’re just trying to cultivate your own personal Wiki on the web.
[00:23:37] Brian Hinton: [00:23:37] Yeah.
[00:23:41] Like you, you can’t your plants can’t spread and grow and. Span,
[00:23:50] Frederick Weiss: [00:23:50] And
[00:24:10] And why do we need to have these? Things that are stuck on on medium,
[00:24:31] Maggie Appleton: [00:24:31] yeah.
[00:24:38] So yeah, you can put up an idea and it might not be perfect. You’re
[00:25:01] I’ve revised it a ton. It’s really like solid boarding as it’s
[00:25:17] So people have different levels of this and another puzzle says, who does
[00:25:39] Giving you yeah, like visibility into how the post came to be and what
[00:25:54] Finished things someone’s thought through, but having spaces for
[00:26:02] Brian Hinton: [00:26:02] It reminds
[00:26:21] And with removing the walled gardens, you spread it out. So I may take
[00:26:35] Maggie Appleton: [00:26:35] Yeah And
[00:26:46] It gives us space to play. I like the idea of playing with different kinds
[00:27:01] So right. You put your photo here and you put your hometown here on your
[00:27:25] I arrange things anywhere and I can decide how I want to present these
[00:27:47] Frederick Weiss: [00:27:47] Do you
[00:28:05] If you could explain that to somebody like in a real example
[00:28:10] Maggie Appleton: [00:28:10] So wait,
[00:28:25] A year ago. And I started writing. I put up a page that said the history
[00:28:39] They’re like, oh, you should finish this. And I also put ’em in a
[00:28:55] But that post, I just, I kept working on it and it would get revised and I
[00:29:11] Totally understood what digital gardening was and was watching the trends
[00:29:31] So I built it really slowly 20 minutes, every two weeks or something
[00:29:48] So gardening appeals to those people.
[00:29:50] Brian Hinton: [00:29:50] Yeah. And
[00:30:08] Zen Zana, dude, I love the draft in progress and then there’s a coming
[00:30:34] It’s almost like your own. Docs.
[00:30:39] Frederick Weiss: [00:30:39] And I
[00:30:57] You have all your illustrations down here. It’s a long article, but
[00:31:11] Maggie Appleton: [00:31:11] I’ll
[00:31:35] And I wish there was more of a name I could give to this community, but
[00:31:50] And you’re just, it’s just like community knowledge coming
[00:32:05] Who’s like helping a community tell their story. Like I would love it
[00:32:17] Frederick Weiss: [00:32:17] Hey,
[00:32:19] Brian Hinton: [00:32:19] Brian? Yeah,
[00:32:23] Nikki Dix says I was originally inspired by Maggie’s website. I’ve
[00:32:38] Frederick Weiss: [00:32:38] She goes
[00:32:45] How much HTML do I need to learn and where should I start? Maggie?
[00:32:51] Maggie Appleton: [00:32:51] Sure.
[00:33:07] And roam research is one way you can use it as a source for your notes.
[00:33:29] And obsidian is another tool that’s doing this. I’ll be getting a
[00:33:54] Frederick Weiss: [00:33:54] Yeah. I
[00:34:12] Maggie Appleton: [00:34:12] I’m
[00:34:30] I don’t have room.
[00:34:33] Frederick Weiss: [00:34:33] Gotcha.
[00:34:52] Like what, are some of the biggest challenges to overcome this start?
[00:34:57] Maggie Appleton: [00:34:57] I think
[00:35:23] Yeah. Static site generator. That is the official tent. Next JS is a
[00:35:45] So there’s lots of really interesting things. Themes being built if
[00:36:09] Cause you know, you do say we will see long-term in the web companies fold
[00:36:25] And then after that Yeah, it depends on if people are really clear on what
[00:36:45] And it’s easier to put small notes okay, this is one thing I’ve
[00:37:01] And it takes the pressure off you to create something that is an opinion.
[00:37:06] Brian Hinton: [00:37:06] Yeah. I
[00:37:31] Move forward. I love that. I love it, I just like clicking through and
[00:37:46] Maggie Appleton: [00:37:46] So I
[00:37:50] Let me zoom in.
[00:37:51] Brian Hinton: [00:37:51] Here we go.
[00:37:54] Maggie Appleton: [00:37:54] I forget
[00:38:09] Project human light qualities on to physical objects or you mistake the
[00:38:28] So I actually have to write more on that piece. I’ve just only written
[00:38:37] Brian Hinton: [00:38:37] Yeah. Yeah
[00:38:40] Maggie Appleton: [00:38:40] Yeah, I
[00:38:45] Brian Hinton: [00:38:45] Oh, Nick
[00:38:54] So I was thinking of creating a digital garden for my learning. Yeah,
[00:38:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:38:59]
[00:39:34] Brian Hinton: [00:39:34] Chris
[00:39:46] Yeah. That’s nice. Yeah. Advice. Good advice. Yeah.
[00:39:50] Maggie Appleton: [00:39:50] Yeah.
[00:39:58] Brian Hinton: [00:39:58] applied
[00:40:03] Maggie Appleton: [00:40:03] Nice.
[00:40:09] Frederick Weiss: [00:40:09] All that
[00:40:30] I don’t know if it’s fair to say in certain fields, like in our
[00:40:44] Maggie Appleton: [00:40:44] Yeah.
[00:40:51] It’s a web log. Cause, the thing, the difference that we would say
[00:41:11] You want to arrange them by topics and you want to make sure notes that
[00:41:29] Frederick Weiss: [00:41:29] Just like
[00:41:30] It’s blogs assume that they have to be perfect and perfect. Again is
[00:41:52] Don’t be afraid to put something out there in the world and show your
[00:41:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:41:59] Yeah.
[00:42:15] And he’s also really into digital gardening and is cool. So like
[00:42:24] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:24] Okay.
[00:42:32] Brian Hinton: [00:42:32] One, I do
[00:42:49] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:49] Oh sorry,
[00:42:53] Who was that? What we just mentioned?
[00:42:55] Maggie Appleton: [00:42:55] Oh, Shaun
[00:43:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:43:10] Thank you
[00:43:11] Maggie, Brian.
[00:43:13] Brian Hinton: [00:43:13] Oh, yeah.
[00:43:26] Maggie Appleton: [00:43:26] I
[00:43:30] And so he likes to stare at the problem for a while and then you’re
[00:43:47] So I know I’ve bookmarked a bunch of those and I need to just set
[00:43:54] Brian Hinton: [00:43:54] write a
[00:43:58] Maggie Appleton: [00:43:58] Yeah.
[00:44:04] I have to make my website more spatial and it’s still pretty linear in
[00:44:18] But I’d say I’m trying to think of ways to put sidebars in or move
[00:44:27] Brian Hinton: [00:44:27] So yeah, as
[00:44:38] Where we ask you questions and it’s like one after another, I go,
[00:44:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:44:59] Okay.
[00:45:00] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:00]
[00:45:10] Maggie Appleton: [00:45:10] I’m
[00:45:18] Brian Hinton: [00:45:18] Well,
[00:45:27] Maggie Appleton: [00:45:27] I feel
[00:45:39] Maybe I can’t tolerate too high of a standard. Okay.
[00:45:45] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:45] Earl gray
[00:45:48] Maggie Appleton: [00:45:48] Oh, just
[00:45:55] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:55] Oh. So
[00:45:59] Brian Hinton: [00:45:59] Okay.
[00:46:02] Where we were somewhere where you’re okay. Waiting. You don’t mind
[00:46:07] Maggie Appleton: [00:46:07] anywhere
[00:46:10] Brian Hinton: [00:46:10] Oh, nice.
[00:46:12] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:12] Nice.
[00:46:16] Maggie Appleton: [00:46:16] This is,
[00:46:29] And, trying to Matt human behavior and put it into computers and then try
[00:46:44] Interesting. Yeah, it’s really good.
[00:46:47] Brian Hinton: [00:46:47] I’m to
[00:46:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:46:59] Shot out
[00:47:04] Frederick Weiss: [00:47:04] is
[00:47:09] What is your podcast that you’ve been going to lately? Just for
[00:47:15] Maggie Appleton: [00:47:15] Oh, I
[00:47:28] But he’s really funny as is his co-host and they just comment on the
[00:47:37] Brian Hinton: [00:47:37] I love that.
[00:47:45] Maggie Appleton: [00:47:45] In the
[00:47:52] And you just have to spend like all weekends, just scrubbing it off. It
[00:48:03] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:03]
[00:48:08] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:08] Since who
[00:48:13] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:13] Let me
[00:48:19] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:19] I’m
[00:48:25] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:25] It’s
[00:48:25] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:25] all
[00:48:33] Brian Hinton: [00:48:33] Yeah. I have
[00:48:43] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:43] Now I
[00:48:49] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:49] it’s
[00:48:57] Maggie I’m home. It’s one in the morning. You’re just trying
[00:49:07] Brian Hinton: [00:49:07] It’s
[00:49:11] Maggie Appleton: [00:49:11] Try to
[00:49:15] Frederick Weiss: [00:49:15] All
[00:49:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:49:24] I was
[00:49:33] Brian Hinton: [00:49:33] What’s
[00:49:45] Maggie Appleton: [00:49:45] Oh, God,
[00:50:04] Like it was, yeah, very much just like spending hours, getting lost in
[00:50:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:11] I hear
[00:50:22] Maggie Appleton: [00:50:22] It’s
[00:50:41] It’s just sort of me trying to think with my hand and my body really
[00:50:46] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:46] I do have
[00:50:52] Brian Hinton: [00:50:52] What kind of
[00:50:58] Realty?
[00:51:03] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:03] Anyway
[00:51:36] Maggie Appleton: [00:51:36] Yeah, I
[00:51:56] Look at what you’re drawing and respond to it in a constant feedback
[00:52:12] Like how did you come up with the ideas of when he drew like Adams and
[00:52:26] Process to be in. And that kind of thing, I’m always addicted to.
[00:52:37] Brian Hinton: [00:52:37] Nice. I love
[00:52:44] Because he never lands.
[00:52:48] Frederick Weiss: [00:52:48] Oh,
[00:52:50] Maggie Appleton: [00:52:50] that is
[00:52:58] Brian Hinton: [00:52:58] Yeah,
[00:53:01] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:01] W
[00:53:11] And then, your website, of course, Maggie appleton.com dribbbles with your
[00:53:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:53:24] No, they
[00:53:32] Brian Hinton: [00:53:32] yeah.
[00:53:32] For our audio listeners. Can you put that back up? Like a reference?
[00:53:36] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:36] Yeah.
[00:53:36] Brian Hinton: [00:53:36] Yeah, sure.
[00:53:51] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:51] I want to
[00:54:03] Maggie is here. Do you have anything to say to the audience chairs, yours?
[00:54:11] Maggie Appleton: [00:54:11] Ooh. The
[00:54:26] So that’s the only thing I’d recommend.
[00:54:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:28] Awesome.
[00:54:32] Brian Hinton: [00:54:32] Thank you,
[00:54:44] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:44]
[00:54:47] Maggie Appleton: [00:54:47]
[00:54:58] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:58] Thank
4.9
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In this episode, we get to speak with Maggie Appleton, Art Director & UX Designer at egghead.io. We discuss the ethos of Digital Gardening and the value of cultivating ideas in public. We also dive into Maggie’s digital anthropology work and discuss how visual metaphors better shape our understanding of technology.
Brian Hinton: [00:00:00] I’m Brian
Frederick Weiss: and I’m Frederick Philip von Weiss. And
[00:00:46] Brian Hinton: [00:00:46] and do tech
[00:00:52] Frederick Weiss: Yeah, thanks
[00:01:15] Brian Hinton: We’d like to thank
[00:01:43] I love that name. An online destination that their developer advocates run
[00:01:52] Frederick Weiss: [00:01:52] Yes.
[00:02:00] we have an amazing guest today. We have Art Director. Writer, Designer,
[00:02:21] Maggie Appleton: [00:02:21] Thanks.
[00:02:22] Thanks for having me on. I’ll also say I’m a mediocre version of
[00:02:31] Frederick Weiss: [00:02:31] You are a
[00:02:43] Maggie Appleton: It’s not too
[00:03:04] So we’re still, you can’t go out in groups of like more than 30 or
[00:03:16] Brian Hinton: [00:03:16] you on, oh,
[00:03:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:03:24] Yeah. We
[00:03:41] Yeah. But vaccinations are rolling out. So like I got my first one last
[00:03:49] Brian Hinton: [00:03:49] happening?
[00:03:54] Frederick Weiss: [00:03:54] and what
[00:03:56] Maggie Appleton: [00:03:56] So
[00:04:03] Brian Hinton: [00:04:03] too.
[00:04:04] Frederick Weiss: [00:04:04] Yeah,
[00:04:16] Maggie Appleton: [00:04:16] Yeah. I
[00:04:29] We have some people in Portland. And yet we’ve always just worked
[00:04:54] But work-wise, I was very fortunate. They didn’t change much in my
[00:04:59] Brian Hinton: [00:04:59] I think the
[00:05:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:05:10] Yeah. So
[00:05:17] What exactly do you do at egghead?
[00:05:20] Maggie Appleton: [00:05:20] I
[00:05:37] Who’s, an incredible unicorn who knows everything from react to front
[00:05:55] So I’m on the two ends of the spectrum, right? If you usually have UX
[00:06:05] Frederick Weiss: [00:06:05]
[00:06:09] Maggie Appleton: [00:06:09] Yeah, I,
[00:06:14] The company I work for teaches front end web development. So we teach
[00:06:36] Being a teenager on the internet and customizing my Neopets page and my
[00:06:54] And of course I love the animations and, what would be database, but
[00:07:13] Brian Hinton: [00:07:13] Yeah.
[00:07:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:07:24]
[00:07:28] Brian Hinton: [00:07:28] Yeah.
[00:07:33] Maggie Appleton: [00:07:33] I studied
[00:07:37] I did a, liberal arts school in the U S which was great. And I found out
[00:08:02] So yeah, so I majored in that as an undergraduate. And then of course
[00:08:12] Brian Hinton: [00:08:12] So has that
[00:08:20] Maggie Appleton: [00:08:20] Yeah,
[00:08:27] Brian Hinton: [00:08:27] And for
[00:08:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:08:28] to
[00:08:52] Maggie Appleton: [00:08:52]
[00:08:53] Yeah. I, and it’s funny too, that it came back around with UX design
[00:09:16] So yeah, so once I realized that UX designers were just like
[00:09:29] So yeah, so I’m very much kind of leaning back into my aunt’s
[00:09:35] Frederick Weiss: [00:09:35] maybe it
[00:09:49] Maggie Appleton: [00:09:49] your
[00:09:50] Sure. Yeah, That’s definitely not an obvious thing. Because
[00:10:13] So I started cultural, which is, yeah. Again, the way people behave on
[00:10:31] So it gives you a broad span. But digital anthropologists tend to study
[00:10:52] What is valuable to us? It’s a broad range of things. You’ll study
[00:11:12] Alignment
[00:11:17] like what stickers are shirts and how you’re signaling to the other
[00:11:23] Brian Hinton: [00:11:23] does matter,
[00:11:26] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:26] Yeah.
[00:11:28] Maggie Appleton: [00:11:28] Yeah.
[00:11:43] Brian Hinton: [00:11:43] I’m
[00:11:55] Maggie Appleton: [00:11:55] No, I was
[00:12:06] I’ll just start reading Elise theorists and love it. And it was only,
[00:12:32] Like what is shameful for them and what are their weaknesses and what do
[00:12:45] Frederick Weiss: [00:12:45] Just like
[00:12:53] Maggie Appleton: [00:12:53] Yes.
[00:13:09] Brian Hinton: [00:13:09] That’s
[00:13:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:11] I really
[00:13:28] Telling us what, that’s about and what, you do with those and why, you
[00:13:45] Maggie Appleton: [00:13:45] Sure.
[00:13:56] With my work at egg head when I first got started there, most of what I
[00:14:11] And I came on as the illustrator and it’s the coolest we put out, I
[00:14:34] I really was like, okay, how do you come up with a metaphor? That actually
[00:15:03] Yeah, so and so, some of the weapons yet, these cool illustrations
[00:15:19] Which, everyone, what do you mean by API? What do you mean? It’s one
[00:15:38] And you can only say certain things. You can ask them for certain things
[00:15:56] So that’s like robot weight and robot weight, as we can say, will have
[00:16:14] And you can only be awesome for a limited set of things. So, the
[00:16:31] And there’s tons of qualities about a hypothetical robot Weta that
[00:16:46] So like those qualities are hidden and only the two things, the qualities
[00:16:56] Brian Hinton: [00:16:56] metaphors in
[00:17:23] See it can’t understand it, then we don’t get a lot of that or
[00:17:33] Maggie Appleton: [00:17:33] Yeah.
[00:17:45] we’ll have the audience do that. Okay. Yeah. If you find one, like
[00:17:55] Brian Hinton: [00:17:55] Yeah. I like
[00:18:05] We made it not that gross to
[00:18:08] Maggie Appleton: [00:18:08] look at,
[00:18:26] Won’t really have to kill animals with this idea. We’re just gonna
[00:18:42] So I have a reference folder. It’s just like butcher shops and blood,
[00:18:50] Frederick Weiss: [00:18:50] It looks
[00:18:55] Maggie Appleton: [00:18:55] or your
[00:19:06] Frederick Weiss: [00:19:06]
[00:19:17] I think you guys were coming up with ideas for. Some sandwiches and you
[00:19:34] Maggie Appleton: [00:19:34] Yeah.
[00:19:35] Jason’s wonderful. And he’s incredible at running that show. I
[00:19:46] Frederick Weiss: [00:19:46] Yes,
[00:19:49] Yeah, we had him on a few months ago. Great guy.
[00:19:52] Brian Hinton: [00:19:52] It looks as
[00:20:00] Maggie Appleton: [00:20:00] So
[00:20:30] And people were using this metaphor of gardening, right? So you are going
[00:21:06] And he now works in disinformation studies. Anyway, he wrote this long
[00:21:23] And everyone built their own weird little website and they linked to all
[00:21:36] And like you know if anyone else went to that website, you saw the same
[00:21:54] When you sit back and a stream of content is delivered to you and your
[00:22:11] So actually we listened to him more than my feet, a little bit, but things
[00:22:25] The New York Times actually just made a film. Was it? Last week, or this
[00:22:40] And so this is a long way of saying gardening is this idea of getting back
[00:23:06] What if you can’t tell? But coming back to this idea of you have your
[00:23:26] And you’re just trying to cultivate your own personal Wiki on the web.
[00:23:37] Brian Hinton: [00:23:37] Yeah.
[00:23:41] Like you, you can’t your plants can’t spread and grow and. Span,
[00:23:50] Frederick Weiss: [00:23:50] And
[00:24:10] And why do we need to have these? Things that are stuck on on medium,
[00:24:31] Maggie Appleton: [00:24:31] yeah.
[00:24:38] So yeah, you can put up an idea and it might not be perfect. You’re
[00:25:01] I’ve revised it a ton. It’s really like solid boarding as it’s
[00:25:17] So people have different levels of this and another puzzle says, who does
[00:25:39] Giving you yeah, like visibility into how the post came to be and what
[00:25:54] Finished things someone’s thought through, but having spaces for
[00:26:02] Brian Hinton: [00:26:02] It reminds
[00:26:21] And with removing the walled gardens, you spread it out. So I may take
[00:26:35] Maggie Appleton: [00:26:35] Yeah And
[00:26:46] It gives us space to play. I like the idea of playing with different kinds
[00:27:01] So right. You put your photo here and you put your hometown here on your
[00:27:25] I arrange things anywhere and I can decide how I want to present these
[00:27:47] Frederick Weiss: [00:27:47] Do you
[00:28:05] If you could explain that to somebody like in a real example
[00:28:10] Maggie Appleton: [00:28:10] So wait,
[00:28:25] A year ago. And I started writing. I put up a page that said the history
[00:28:39] They’re like, oh, you should finish this. And I also put ’em in a
[00:28:55] But that post, I just, I kept working on it and it would get revised and I
[00:29:11] Totally understood what digital gardening was and was watching the trends
[00:29:31] So I built it really slowly 20 minutes, every two weeks or something
[00:29:48] So gardening appeals to those people.
[00:29:50] Brian Hinton: [00:29:50] Yeah. And
[00:30:08] Zen Zana, dude, I love the draft in progress and then there’s a coming
[00:30:34] It’s almost like your own. Docs.
[00:30:39] Frederick Weiss: [00:30:39] And I
[00:30:57] You have all your illustrations down here. It’s a long article, but
[00:31:11] Maggie Appleton: [00:31:11] I’ll
[00:31:35] And I wish there was more of a name I could give to this community, but
[00:31:50] And you’re just, it’s just like community knowledge coming
[00:32:05] Who’s like helping a community tell their story. Like I would love it
[00:32:17] Frederick Weiss: [00:32:17] Hey,
[00:32:19] Brian Hinton: [00:32:19] Brian? Yeah,
[00:32:23] Nikki Dix says I was originally inspired by Maggie’s website. I’ve
[00:32:38] Frederick Weiss: [00:32:38] She goes
[00:32:45] How much HTML do I need to learn and where should I start? Maggie?
[00:32:51] Maggie Appleton: [00:32:51] Sure.
[00:33:07] And roam research is one way you can use it as a source for your notes.
[00:33:29] And obsidian is another tool that’s doing this. I’ll be getting a
[00:33:54] Frederick Weiss: [00:33:54] Yeah. I
[00:34:12] Maggie Appleton: [00:34:12] I’m
[00:34:30] I don’t have room.
[00:34:33] Frederick Weiss: [00:34:33] Gotcha.
[00:34:52] Like what, are some of the biggest challenges to overcome this start?
[00:34:57] Maggie Appleton: [00:34:57] I think
[00:35:23] Yeah. Static site generator. That is the official tent. Next JS is a
[00:35:45] So there’s lots of really interesting things. Themes being built if
[00:36:09] Cause you know, you do say we will see long-term in the web companies fold
[00:36:25] And then after that Yeah, it depends on if people are really clear on what
[00:36:45] And it’s easier to put small notes okay, this is one thing I’ve
[00:37:01] And it takes the pressure off you to create something that is an opinion.
[00:37:06] Brian Hinton: [00:37:06] Yeah. I
[00:37:31] Move forward. I love that. I love it, I just like clicking through and
[00:37:46] Maggie Appleton: [00:37:46] So I
[00:37:50] Let me zoom in.
[00:37:51] Brian Hinton: [00:37:51] Here we go.
[00:37:54] Maggie Appleton: [00:37:54] I forget
[00:38:09] Project human light qualities on to physical objects or you mistake the
[00:38:28] So I actually have to write more on that piece. I’ve just only written
[00:38:37] Brian Hinton: [00:38:37] Yeah. Yeah
[00:38:40] Maggie Appleton: [00:38:40] Yeah, I
[00:38:45] Brian Hinton: [00:38:45] Oh, Nick
[00:38:54] So I was thinking of creating a digital garden for my learning. Yeah,
[00:38:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:38:59]
[00:39:34] Brian Hinton: [00:39:34] Chris
[00:39:46] Yeah. That’s nice. Yeah. Advice. Good advice. Yeah.
[00:39:50] Maggie Appleton: [00:39:50] Yeah.
[00:39:58] Brian Hinton: [00:39:58] applied
[00:40:03] Maggie Appleton: [00:40:03] Nice.
[00:40:09] Frederick Weiss: [00:40:09] All that
[00:40:30] I don’t know if it’s fair to say in certain fields, like in our
[00:40:44] Maggie Appleton: [00:40:44] Yeah.
[00:40:51] It’s a web log. Cause, the thing, the difference that we would say
[00:41:11] You want to arrange them by topics and you want to make sure notes that
[00:41:29] Frederick Weiss: [00:41:29] Just like
[00:41:30] It’s blogs assume that they have to be perfect and perfect. Again is
[00:41:52] Don’t be afraid to put something out there in the world and show your
[00:41:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:41:59] Yeah.
[00:42:15] And he’s also really into digital gardening and is cool. So like
[00:42:24] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:24] Okay.
[00:42:32] Brian Hinton: [00:42:32] One, I do
[00:42:49] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:49] Oh sorry,
[00:42:53] Who was that? What we just mentioned?
[00:42:55] Maggie Appleton: [00:42:55] Oh, Shaun
[00:43:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:43:10] Thank you
[00:43:11] Maggie, Brian.
[00:43:13] Brian Hinton: [00:43:13] Oh, yeah.
[00:43:26] Maggie Appleton: [00:43:26] I
[00:43:30] And so he likes to stare at the problem for a while and then you’re
[00:43:47] So I know I’ve bookmarked a bunch of those and I need to just set
[00:43:54] Brian Hinton: [00:43:54] write a
[00:43:58] Maggie Appleton: [00:43:58] Yeah.
[00:44:04] I have to make my website more spatial and it’s still pretty linear in
[00:44:18] But I’d say I’m trying to think of ways to put sidebars in or move
[00:44:27] Brian Hinton: [00:44:27] So yeah, as
[00:44:38] Where we ask you questions and it’s like one after another, I go,
[00:44:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:44:59] Okay.
[00:45:00] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:00]
[00:45:10] Maggie Appleton: [00:45:10] I’m
[00:45:18] Brian Hinton: [00:45:18] Well,
[00:45:27] Maggie Appleton: [00:45:27] I feel
[00:45:39] Maybe I can’t tolerate too high of a standard. Okay.
[00:45:45] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:45] Earl gray
[00:45:48] Maggie Appleton: [00:45:48] Oh, just
[00:45:55] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:55] Oh. So
[00:45:59] Brian Hinton: [00:45:59] Okay.
[00:46:02] Where we were somewhere where you’re okay. Waiting. You don’t mind
[00:46:07] Maggie Appleton: [00:46:07] anywhere
[00:46:10] Brian Hinton: [00:46:10] Oh, nice.
[00:46:12] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:12] Nice.
[00:46:16] Maggie Appleton: [00:46:16] This is,
[00:46:29] And, trying to Matt human behavior and put it into computers and then try
[00:46:44] Interesting. Yeah, it’s really good.
[00:46:47] Brian Hinton: [00:46:47] I’m to
[00:46:59] Maggie Appleton: [00:46:59] Shot out
[00:47:04] Frederick Weiss: [00:47:04] is
[00:47:09] What is your podcast that you’ve been going to lately? Just for
[00:47:15] Maggie Appleton: [00:47:15] Oh, I
[00:47:28] But he’s really funny as is his co-host and they just comment on the
[00:47:37] Brian Hinton: [00:47:37] I love that.
[00:47:45] Maggie Appleton: [00:47:45] In the
[00:47:52] And you just have to spend like all weekends, just scrubbing it off. It
[00:48:03] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:03]
[00:48:08] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:08] Since who
[00:48:13] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:13] Let me
[00:48:19] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:19] I’m
[00:48:25] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:25] It’s
[00:48:25] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:25] all
[00:48:33] Brian Hinton: [00:48:33] Yeah. I have
[00:48:43] Maggie Appleton: [00:48:43] Now I
[00:48:49] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:49] it’s
[00:48:57] Maggie I’m home. It’s one in the morning. You’re just trying
[00:49:07] Brian Hinton: [00:49:07] It’s
[00:49:11] Maggie Appleton: [00:49:11] Try to
[00:49:15] Frederick Weiss: [00:49:15] All
[00:49:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:49:24] I was
[00:49:33] Brian Hinton: [00:49:33] What’s
[00:49:45] Maggie Appleton: [00:49:45] Oh, God,
[00:50:04] Like it was, yeah, very much just like spending hours, getting lost in
[00:50:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:11] I hear
[00:50:22] Maggie Appleton: [00:50:22] It’s
[00:50:41] It’s just sort of me trying to think with my hand and my body really
[00:50:46] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:46] I do have
[00:50:52] Brian Hinton: [00:50:52] What kind of
[00:50:58] Realty?
[00:51:03] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:03] Anyway
[00:51:36] Maggie Appleton: [00:51:36] Yeah, I
[00:51:56] Look at what you’re drawing and respond to it in a constant feedback
[00:52:12] Like how did you come up with the ideas of when he drew like Adams and
[00:52:26] Process to be in. And that kind of thing, I’m always addicted to.
[00:52:37] Brian Hinton: [00:52:37] Nice. I love
[00:52:44] Because he never lands.
[00:52:48] Frederick Weiss: [00:52:48] Oh,
[00:52:50] Maggie Appleton: [00:52:50] that is
[00:52:58] Brian Hinton: [00:52:58] Yeah,
[00:53:01] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:01] W
[00:53:11] And then, your website, of course, Maggie appleton.com dribbbles with your
[00:53:24] Maggie Appleton: [00:53:24] No, they
[00:53:32] Brian Hinton: [00:53:32] yeah.
[00:53:32] For our audio listeners. Can you put that back up? Like a reference?
[00:53:36] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:36] Yeah.
[00:53:36] Brian Hinton: [00:53:36] Yeah, sure.
[00:53:51] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:51] I want to
[00:54:03] Maggie is here. Do you have anything to say to the audience chairs, yours?
[00:54:11] Maggie Appleton: [00:54:11] Ooh. The
[00:54:26] So that’s the only thing I’d recommend.
[00:54:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:28] Awesome.
[00:54:32] Brian Hinton: [00:54:32] Thank you,
[00:54:44] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:44]
[00:54:47] Maggie Appleton: [00:54:47]
[00:54:58] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:58] Thank