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We talk with Zack Gottlieb, VP Head of Design platform at Atlassian. We discuss Zack’s career journey and what it takes to make it to Atlassian.
Our main topic of discussion is the Great Resignation in the tech industry. We start the conversation by asking why so many people are leaving in the first place. Then we explore why companies want their employees back in the office. Additionally, we examine what companies are doing to retain their top talent.
In this episode, we talk with Michelle Morgan: International Paid Media Consultant, Writer, and Speaker. We explore the realm of advertising on the most popular social platforms and investigate the unforeseen opportunities in others. Additionally, we discuss Michelle’s organization, Paid Media Pros, which provides PPC videos for advertisers with any level of experience.
In this episode, we talk with Chris Ferdinandi, #JavaScript Educator, The Vanilla JS Guy. 🍦We discuss how Chris became the “Vanilla #JS Guy” as he shares his thoughts about JavaScript, the modern web, switching careers, #ADHD, and more!
In this episode, we talk with designer, musician, Travis Neilson. We discuss Travis’s career at YouTube Music. We dive into his day-to-day and what it’s like to work at YouTube. Then we explore Travis’s music, specifically his channel Little Music Boxes.
In this episode, we talk with Faisal Abid: Speaker, Entrepreneur, Google Developer Expert, and co-founder of Eirene cremations. Eirene provides high-quality, affordable cremation services. Eirene allows families to plan an affordable cremation entirely online or over the phone. Leveraging technology to help provide a better funeral experience to families. Additionally, Faisal walks us through the unique business and technology challenges he faced at the beginning of Eirene.
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In this episode, we talk with Ali Rizvi, Vice President of Product Management at Star2Star, a Sangoma company. We discuss digital ethics, rights & responsibilities of technology companies such as Facebook. There are many aspects to how these entities influence our political climate and unnaturally distort social behavior. Some of the social media algorithms are presented to make our lives better, but do they? Are these types of technologies a fundamental threat to the whole of humanity, or just misunderstood?
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In this episode, we talk with SWYX, author, speaker, podcaster, and learning in public evangelist. We dive into his career history in finance and how he transitioned into development. We also discuss the challenges of Developer Experience, the advantages of learning in public, and lessons learned from podcasting. Additionally, we get a musical performance from SWYX himself.
Bonus: We have Software Engineer, Arit Amana as a guest co-host.
[00:00:00] Frederick Weiss: Welcome, I’m Frederick
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[00:02:13] SWYX: Thanks. Yeah.
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[00:02:47] SWYX: Yes, sir. Seattle. Um, yeah, I went to Croatia for a conference. They shift conferences as
[00:03:05] SWYX: And so I, I went with it with all my friends who were also speakers and had a really good
[00:03:25] SWYX: So, uh, it turns out that, uh, I mean, I knew in concept about the chunk travel ban, but
[00:03:53] SWYX: Uh, so I had to go quarantine in Mexico for, for 14 days. Uh, don't really speak the
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[00:04:11] SWYX: not count the matter? Yeah.
[00:04:13] SWYX: It didn't
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[00:04:34] SWYX: Um, everyone's, everyone's fairly actually, I think, yeah. I would say, I'll
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[00:05:19] SWYX: Lambda.
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[00:05:26] SWYX: Oh, is
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[00:06:12] SWYX: yourself? Yeah, I'm born and raised in Singapore and came to the states for
[00:06:16] SWYX: Uh, and I spent my first career in finance where I did, uh, investment banking and hedge
[00:06:36] SWYX: Ha. It was fantastic. Uh, I had, I came out of investment banking with a 4,000 line, uh,
[00:06:55] SWYX: Uh, yeah. It's, it's on, it's on, they get up just actually, cause I, I lost it
[00:07:13] SWYX: Uh, it was very stressful, and uh, I think it's not very good for, um, just like
[00:07:34] SWYX: So whatever trade I made, whether or not it made money, the next trade, uh, would have to
[00:07:55] SWYX: Um, I just, I had enough, I just burned out. Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't like, I
[00:08:19] SWYX: You know, so, uh, but there was one thing I was good at, which is coding, uh, which was
[00:08:42] SWYX: Like in this different way, I would have to go back and punch those numbers in and get the
[00:08:59] SWYX: Um, I think actually front end developers, don't under, don't appreciate sometimes
[00:09:23] SWYX: So I tried six months of self-learning with free code camp and I didn't feel it was enough. So I enrolled in a bootcamp and
[00:09:46] SWYX: More like basically five-plus plus,
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[00:10:36] SWYX: passion. I think there was a, there was passion, otherwise, I wouldn't have stuck with
[00:10:42] SWYX: Um, I w what got me into it was honestly the 1997 and 2001 financial crisis. So 1997 is not
[00:11:07] SWYX: But, but, uh, I realized that basically every other job, every other industry is inherently
[00:11:35] SWYX: And again like everyone, you know, out of a job or like overextended in your loans or
[00:12:02] SWYX: Like they, the, they say things that are, may not actually be true. And if, if you, if you
[00:12:21] SWYX: In the center of the financial transformation of assets. And I think that's a very
[00:12:42] SWYX: That's kind of the summary of it. Um, I also didn't like the people I would say
[00:13:05] SWYX: Why say was a notional. Uh, it's not actually, we didn't have a billion dollars
[00:13:26] SWYX: And yeah. I mean, I thought that that was my deal position. I spent 10 years getting there
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[00:14:25] SWYX: I speak to a lot of, uh, finance refugees who are like me, they heard my story and then,
[00:14:36] SWYX: Like, do you want me to walk away from this? Uh, and yeah. You know, and changing careers,
[00:14:56] SWYX: You should be, uh, it should be well-known in your industry by now. And to say like, ah,
[00:15:15] SWYX: Um,
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[00:15:47] SWYX: Is that fair? Um, that was that's a slightly tangential thing. Uh, but I was definitely
[00:16:07] SWYX: Long-term, uh, I don't think it serves them very well sometimes because I find that
[00:16:25] SWYX: Um, but sometimes they don't know what your interests are and if your interest diverged
[00:16:42] SWYX: So. Yeah. Th this tweet is a more recent realization, nothing to do with the finance bit.
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[00:17:14] SWYX: go, go forward for anyone who's considering a career change or anyone who knows a
[00:17:20] SWYX: This is exactly what I did. I took a year to do it. Um, I left my hedge fund. I joined a
[00:17:43] SWYX: And, uh, while I was there, I learned to code on decide, uh, F using free code camp.
[00:18:02] Frederick
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[00:18:04] Arit
[00:18:32] SWYX: Yeah. Yeah. How long did you take to go through this whole thing?
[00:18:36] Arit
[00:18:46] SWYX: That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah.
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[00:19:29] SWYX: The title is head of developer experience. It's kind of
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[00:19:42] SWYX: Sure. I, I, I've been asked to, uh, various versions of this car for quite recently,
[00:20:11] SWYX: So you see developer experience teams that like Spotify or slack or, um, Netflix, uh, their
[00:20:30] SWYX: So, uh, for those people, the way that I split it up is kind of. You there the three main
[00:20:48] SWYX: That's the first bit, the second bit is, uh, getting from code to deploy really, really
[00:21:11] SWYX: So, uh, that's kind of like the full software development life cycle that I really like
[00:21:28] SWYX: So, um, what we are trying to do is we're trying to serve these internal developer
[00:21:47] SWYX: So external developer experience, uh, Kind of mostly right now developer relations, which
[00:22:05] SWYX: Um, but also I think it's starting to evolve a little bit more into community
[00:22:27] SWYX: And they realized that a more vibrant community actually is, uh, is a more sustainable moat
[00:22:46] SWYX: Uh, what I mean by products is that, um, that no amount of advocacy you can do in the
[00:23:10] SWYX: Uh, here's all, here's what, here's the pain points and here's how, what
[00:23:22] SWYX: It just use your thing. And it just.
[00:23:26] Arit
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[00:24:20] SWYX: We don't handle it very well.
[00:24:25] SWYX: Let's just be honest, right? Like we're still figuring this out. Like, um, I, I
[00:24:47] SWYX: That's the notion essentially like we take notes, uh, when we interact with customers
[00:25:07] SWYX: So we don't do that. Uh, we do that for, you know, large names and prospective
[00:25:31] SWYX: Like, uh, from the landing page to onto the first page of the docs to the hello world. Um,
[00:25:53] SWYX: Um, and so what can we squeeze in there that will get you interested in and get you to come
[00:26:16] SWYX: Um, and then once you've decided to use the tool, how do we get you to production with
[00:26:44] SWYX: Uh, and then community-wise, I think
[00:27:07] SWYX: So a lot of things get dropped. Maybe we could do a better job of it, but also I would just
[00:27:17] Arit
[00:27:38] Arit
[00:27:43] SWYX: Yeah. Um, to some extent I've already given up and being like a full-time developer. So
[00:28:05] SWYX: So three months out of the 12 months of a year, you are on the edge team. You do not have
[00:28:20] SWYX: I think that's a really nice thing to do. Unfortunately, three months is actually quite
[00:28:37] SWYX: You're not on call for the thing that you wrote nine months ago. Like, uh, there are a
[00:29:02] SWYX: Uh, even though I'm not writing. Production code. I am determining the design of
[00:29:27] SWYX: Um, there's, there are a thousand
[00:29:47] Frederick
[00:29:56] Frederick
[00:30:01] SWYX: a few years ago. No, this is April to May,
[00:30:07] Frederick
[00:30:16] SWYX: I had two months off between uh Netlify and, and, uh, Amazon. So I, uh, I decided that I
[00:30:35] SWYX: And my blog was on learning and public has had over a million. And constantly get
[00:30:54] SWYX: So I expanded upon it. I was like, okay, I'll, I'll try to make this like a
[00:31:21] SWYX: What's what, there's a little bit of imposter syndrome giving out career advice
[00:31:37] SWYX: So, um, it's, this is not advice, not just advice from me, this advice from 1400 other
[00:31:55] SWYX: Um, I, I try not to address the like first job hunts thing because a lot of other resources
[00:32:12] SWYX: They're not resources to get you from junior to senior. And guess what? Like, most
[00:32:27] SWYX: Uh, I think it's the equivalent of having a good mentor, um, at work. And sometimes you
[00:32:44] SWYX: So they come to me and, uh, I try to help them as best as I can.
[00:32:48] Frederick
[00:33:02] SWYX: Yeah, I've actually simplified. I used to have three tiers and that was just like,
[00:33:21] SWYX: It's just super stressful. I'm, I'm sick of all the subscriptions I'm
[00:33:42] SWYX: It's a one-time fee of like, I don't know, like 40, 50. Uh, 40 bucks and, and yeah,
[00:34:10] SWYX: I have people showing up and saying, they asked me questions, and then you go away and come back seven months later and they go like, Hey,
[00:34:25] SWYX: And one of them doubled their pay, um, going from junior to senior. And, uh, I was just,
[00:34:42] SWYX: They can talk about career stuff apart from their friend network who may not be developers
[00:34:59] Frederick
[00:35:05] Frederick
[00:35:25] Frederick
[00:35:46] Frederick
[00:36:13] Frederick
[00:36:20] SWYX: Yeah, that's true. Um, I think it basically takes advantage of the fact that tech is a
[00:36:37] SWYX: You know, we open-source our code that
[00:37:03] SWYX: Um, and so I think if, I think if you do that for your own learning, you actually learn
[00:37:22] SWYX: Um, because when you start off learning, it's a, it's always a burst of inspiration
[00:37:47] SWYX: Like actually, you know, other people are in the same boat with me or they're mentoring
[00:38:09] SWYX: Um, and that's just a fundamental thing. Like I've done it for maybe four to five
[00:38:29] SWYX: Uh, such a more fulfilling one than something where you keep everything to yourself. Um,
[00:38:51] SWYX: And it's always the question of like, how do you grow better than the average by a
[00:39:13] SWYX: Um, but as an, as an engineer or as a. With the, with the knowledge was it was a knowledge
[00:39:34] SWYX: So if the different algorithm is instead of learning private learning public, and we learn
[00:39:57] SWYX: And sometimes you answer when people ask questions of you, um, they ask they're asking
[00:40:18] SWYX: So, uh, it's just a funny way that the internet works, but I just really like it
[00:40:33] Arit
[00:40:45] Arit
[00:41:16] SWYX: Ooh. Um, sometimes yeah, just a track record of putting up increasingly better stuff. Um, I
[00:41:41] SWYX: Um, and you have to recognize that there's a certain journalistic responsibility that
[00:42:00] SWYX: Right. Um, and that's on, that's on you, that's on me. Um, and all that. Um,
[00:42:18] SWYX: Um, and guess what, like a year from now, two years from now, you should look back on what
[00:42:38] SWYX: And I think people, um, there's a certain amount of like you can't please
[00:42:55] Frederick
[00:43:17] Frederick
[00:43:23] SWYX: Yeah. Oh, okay. I'll say, I'll say this. Some people want, uh, different levels of
[00:43:37] SWYX: Uh, but some people just want the quick hits of like, give me your top three
[00:43:57] SWYX: Um, and, and so if you set the expectations clearly, like this is my work in progress, uh,
[00:44:19] SWYX: Um, I think that that works really well. So, um, I do like having a space to experiment and
[00:44:40] SWYX: Spent in creation to the hours spent consuming. So you want higher ratios on the media that
[00:45:00] SWYX: Um, yeah, so, so that's kind of how I think about it. Like, um, there's,
[00:45:20] SWYX: Uh, I don't put a lot of thought into them. Uh, it's fine. But also, uh, you know,
[00:45:36] SWYX: So I like that.
[00:45:39] Frederick
[00:46:11] Frederick
[00:46:20] SWYX: Um, how did I come up with the ideas I wanted? So I had a dabble in. Professionally or more
[00:46:40] SWYX: Uh, so, so it's an honor to be on. Um, but also I think that podcast is a very lonely
[00:47:16] SWYX: And if you're, if you're along for the ride, if you like, what I like, uh,
[00:47:39] SWYX: I love them that people, people, people really, I mean, the audience is pretty small,
[00:48:04] SWYX: Like, um, and I love these, uh, basically what I call single-player games, uh, where that can they have the option to turn
[00:48:26] SWYX: Um, if your entire goal was to get likes and views. So if you try not to measure yourself
[00:48:43] SWYX: You're literally fulfilling your own needs. Um, and you win no matter how much people
[00:49:05] SWYX: Uh, so that's kind of how I approach my, my mixtape as well. Like I still win because I w had the chance to go over a passage within a podcast
[00:49:24] SWYX: Uh, the, the breakdown is, is a crypto podcast. There's also daily it with, uh, with extended pieces on the weekends. And then, uh, so what
[00:49:42] SWYX: And then on weekends, I'll do long-form audio sometimes of others, but most of
[00:50:02] SWYX: And also it makes it, uh, it preserves it in case the other podcast goes away.
[00:50:10] Frederick
[00:50:26] Frederick
[00:50:52] SWYX: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think people also like a commentary on podcasts, like meta-commentary. So that's what I try to do, on most episodes. Like,
[00:51:14] SWYX: Right. Like, um, and so I think it's great. So I don't, I don't know where to
[00:51:29] Frederick
[00:51:37] Arit
[00:52:04] Arit
[00:52:07] Frederick
[00:52:09] SWYX: Well, we're getting. Oh, sorry. So I have lunch, I have lunch, a YouTube version of my
[00:52:26] SWYX: Um, it was with Sunil PI, who is the, who is former react core team member. And just the
[00:52:45] SWYX: And, uh, I just got a notification that we were on the react newsletter. So that's
[00:53:01] SWYX: Yeah.
[00:53:02] Frederick
[00:53:17] SWYX: but, um, yeah. Uh, my, my side is six that I owe my Twitter is at six.
[00:53:23] SWYX: And then, um, I guess if you want to email me six at six, that I, oh, everything's
[00:53:32] Frederick
[00:53:39] SWYX: learning public, I think it changed my life has changed the lives of many, many, many,
[00:53:46] SWYX: Uh, and don't need, you don't need to credit me at all because, uh, you just take
[00:53:56] Frederick
[00:54:05] SWYX: I know. I, I, I'm still learning.
[00:54:08] SWYX: I still
[00:54:12] Arit
[00:54:14] SWYX: but it sounds, it sounds terrible.
[00:54:16] Frederick
[00:54:23] SWYX: Okay. If you, it says I insist,
[00:54:35] SWYX: um, what am I playing?
[00:54:38] Frederick
[00:54:50] SWYX: Its attitude. It's. Okay. It's
[00:55:05] Frederick
[00:55:08] SWYX: awesome. Um, but it really bothers me as a musician. No, no. Keep going. I can appreciate
[00:55:19] SWYX: Um,
[00:55:21] Frederick
[00:55:30] SWYX: it's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing how you can speak to my heart.
[00:55:49] SWYX: I'm still learning.
[00:55:51] Arit
[00:55:57] SWYX: um, so I actually, uh, I've been advised that should not do finger-picking these finger
[00:56:20] SWYX: So I used to be a singer and a much more of a singer than I am a guitarist.
[00:56:25] Frederick
[00:56:32] SWYX: Um, uh, I have a song called nobody knows about, um, Sure. Uh, I'll look up the
[00:56:44] SWYX: Cause like I am not learning in public. Yes, exactly. Wow. Okay. It's in here. So
[00:56:55] Frederick
[00:56:59] SWYX: Uh, so yeah, that's my acapella stuff. Um, I would like to do multiple instruments, but
[00:57:09] Frederick
[00:57:11] Frederick
[00:57:12] SWYX: go ahead. Go ahead. It's not active, but um, oh man, you, you flustered me you’re, uh, this is like one of my most insecure things. Cause I
[00:57:29] Frederick
[00:57:36] Arit
[00:57:39] Arit
[00:57:45] Frederick
[00:57:49] Arit
[00:57:51] Frederick
[00:57:52] SWYX: got some more. I found I found my chords. You want to, do you want me to try it again? Do
[00:57:58] Frederick
[00:58:05] SWYX: And, uh, it didn't even put up a fight. Didn't even bake. So I found a way to let
[00:58:23] Arit
[00:58:28] SWYX: It's the rest. I don't take it. I ain't never going to
[00:58:32] Arit
[00:58:39] Arit
[00:58:39] SWYX: surrounded by every, I can see. You know, you're my saving grey, everything in
[00:58:51] Arit
[00:58:52] SWYX: me. I can feel you. Hello? Hey, won't fade away. There we go. That was awesome. Thank
[00:59:05] Frederick
[00:59:08] SWYX: Give me a second shot. Cause like the person sucks so bad. I was just like, I'm not
[00:59:13] SWYX: Like I haven't warmed up. I can play it while singing. That was my achievements. But
[00:59:18] Frederick
[00:59:21] Arit
[00:59:27] Frederick
[00:59:33] Frederick
In this episode, we get to talk with design director and conflict resolution expert Joshua Mauldin. We discuss the most effective techniques for conflict resolution, how to establish trust, and employ empathy. Joshua explains when we should use a third-party mediator, start a conversation with safety checks and lead a talk with facts. Additionally, we dive into disaster recovery. The approach of creating a shared purpose in building alignment.
[00:00:37] Brian
[00:00:39] Frederick
[00:01:01] Brian
[00:01:02] And we’d like to think Auth0 is this season’s sponsor. They make it easy for developers to build a custom secure and standards-based
[00:01:27] And lastly avocado labs. It’s an online
[00:01:40] Frederick
[00:01:53] Welcome to the show Joshua, really appreciate you joining us today.
[00:01:56] Joshua
[00:02:07] Frederick
[00:02:13] Joshua
[00:02:13] All right.
[00:02:15] Frederick
[00:02:26] Joshua
[00:02:37] Uh, I’m doing good. Picked up some odd
[00:02:48] Frederick
[00:02:57] What does that mean? And what is your day to
[00:03:01] Joshua
[00:03:06] Frederick
[00:03:09] Joshua
[00:03:14] Frederick
[00:03:16] Joshua
[00:03:19] Oh, rad. Okay. Yeah. So the day-to-day of me
[00:03:53] Frederick
[00:03:57] Brian
[00:04:00] Frederick
[00:04:13] Joshua. We’re here to talk to you about
[00:04:21] Joshua
[00:04:46] Uh, Actually, that’s a funny statement
[00:04:52] Frederick
[00:04:54] Brian
[00:04:56] Joshua
[00:05:10] If that makes. Yeah,
[00:05:12] Frederick
[00:05:36] With with conflict, but a lot of it is that,
[00:05:44] Joshua
[00:05:50] Frederick
[00:06:03] tools.
[00:06:05] Joshua
[00:06:29] You’ve got someone who is constantly
[00:06:39] Frederick
[00:06:44] Joshua
[00:06:50] And hypothetically, if you
[00:06:52] Frederick
[00:06:59] Joshua
[00:07:16] Well,
[00:07:17] Frederick
[00:07:39] To, uh, address him and resolve this conflict
[00:07:51] Brian
[00:07:57] Frederick
[00:08:04] Joshua
[00:08:13] Frederick
[00:08:16] Joshua
[00:08:28] Hey, this is the fourth time you’ve
[00:08:49] I think back to an episode of Ted lasso when
[00:09:10] Um, and the, the reasoning behind that is,
[00:09:23] Frederick
[00:09:32] So they worked it out. They didn’t need a
[00:09:49] Brian
[00:10:03] Uh, how do you mediate that without stifling
[00:10:08] Joshua
[00:10:26] Like, what is it that you want in this?
[00:10:48] So figuring out what it is that both of you
[00:11:12] You validated through your testing and, and
[00:11:29] What, what do you really need? What are you
[00:11:34] Frederick
[00:11:45] So. Others input conclusions, facts, real,
[00:11:59] Joshua
[00:12:15] You can have these conversations without
[00:12:36] It’s, you’re, you’re not there
[00:12:59] Yeah. Come back later. Uh, yeah. So you, you,
[00:13:25] And a lot of folks can just begrudgingly, you
[00:13:37] Frederick
[00:13:52] Whenever I approach him, you know, it seems
[00:14:02] Joshua
[00:14:19] And you’re going to go in to defensive
[00:14:47] So like we tend to perceive these conflicts
[00:15:07] Brian
[00:15:14] Um, you’re not doing yourself
[00:15:17] Joshua
[00:15:40] Whereas if I asked you, why were you such a
[00:15:53] Brian
[00:15:57] Joshua
[00:16:11] And then the moment that this conversation
[00:16:28] Brian
[00:16:32] Joshua
[00:16:34] So I tend to look at these kinds of things
[00:16:55] So temporary setbacks, you know, sometimes
[00:17:14] I, I understand what the trade-offs are.
[00:17:27] Frederick
[00:17:58] And it’s, it’s all about empathy.
[00:18:01] Joshua
[00:18:23] I’ve started to build this culture of
[00:18:48] Then the whole organization. Not to mention
[00:18:55] Frederick
[00:19:11] Checking yourself. Don’t assume that
[00:19:42] Joshua
[00:19:43] Yeah. I th I find that, you know, this
[00:20:09] It’s not always going to be like that.
[00:20:32] That I really like to keep in mind,
[00:20:56] There is a chance that someone is actually
[00:21:18] And like, if we’re in a room together, I
[00:21:36] Brian
[00:21:38] I mean, we’re talking about resolving
[00:21:50] Joshua
[00:22:02] Um, you’re not experiencing the
[00:22:29] And I was obviously very invested in, in this
[00:23:00] I haven’t really worked it out fully, but
[00:23:14] Frederick
[00:23:18] Joshua
[00:23:36] So if you can remove the emotion from it,
[00:24:04] Let’s go do that. Or in, in more personal
[00:24:34] And it’s not really about having a
[00:25:04] Frederick
[00:25:26] These are just. Very simple miscommunications
[00:25:41] Joshua
[00:25:50] Like, am I really hungry that I get enough
[00:26:19] Um, and that’s part of the reason why
[00:26:40] Like I could go on for days about this kind
[00:27:10] Oh, I saw that you did, you, you didn’t
[00:27:33] This is how it made me feel. Am I missing
[00:27:56] Like you start with safety, you talk about
[00:28:05] Frederick
[00:28:20] But in fact, that’s fine. Doesn’t
[00:28:45] So you talk about, you know, the safety
[00:29:28] What have you.
[00:29:30] Joshua
[00:29:57] But if you can pick up on tone on body
[00:30:14] You know, I’m not saying you’re bad
[00:30:42] And a lot of this has really framed in
[00:31:13] And so it’s very clearly articulated.
[00:31:39] And like, I, I don’t no one likes to be
[00:31:59] Frederick
[00:32:00] Joshua
[00:32:08] Your voice lowers. It’s not until you
[00:32:18] Brian
[00:32:32] Designed to increase empathy and improve the
[00:32:39] Joshua
[00:32:49] Frederick
[00:32:59] Uh, right now with all the video conferencing
[00:33:20] We could see each other, but it’s not the
[00:33:28] Joshua
[00:33:43] Um, you just need to communicate. You just
[00:34:06] Way more negatively. Um, in fact, our
[00:34:29] So correct that by using. Emoji sparingly,
[00:34:54] What I’m actually saying is that I think
[00:35:00] Frederick
[00:35:17] Yeah,
[00:35:18] Joshua
[00:35:42] It’s a nice.
[00:35:44] Frederick
[00:35:57] Joshua
[00:36:04] Um, so no, no release date as of yet for that
[00:36:34] And so that’s, that’s where this
[00:36:52] Frederick
[00:36:58] And, uh, you know, you go out and you speak
[00:37:21] You know what, um, I’m, I’m in all of
[00:37:26] Joshua
[00:37:51] And so it was more of a lifelong study. Um,
[00:38:17] Uh, it was just, it was not a good situation.
[00:38:40] Um, I think specifically there is an incident
[00:39:04] I’m just kind of go do it my way. Um, and
[00:39:29] I gotta get some training. And then I came
[00:39:39] Frederick
[00:39:50] Joshua
[00:39:52] Frederick
[00:40:01] It’s like, I feel like you’re
[00:40:17] Brian
[00:40:22] pretty much the only answer I have.
[00:40:25] Frederick
[00:40:28] Joshua
[00:40:46] Frederick
[00:40:50] Joshua
[00:41:07] Frederick
[00:41:17] Brian
[00:41:18] Twitter’s the way Frederick, I don’t
[00:41:27] Joshua
[00:41:29] Frederick
[00:41:30] Joshua
[00:41:42] So you two just found a way to get in touch
[00:42:01] Frederick
[00:42:05] Joshua
[00:42:07] Frederick
[00:42:14] Joshua
[00:42:20] Brian
[00:42:37] Joshua
[00:42:41] Frederick
[00:42:49] Joshua
[00:42:58] Brian
[00:43:07] Joshua
[00:43:18] Yeah, dude, not into it. Like just let me,
[00:43:25] Frederick
[00:43:32] Joshua
[00:43:47] Um, and I’ve read a lot about how to have
[00:44:05] So keep them in mind. Um, but yeah,
[00:44:14] Brian
[00:44:26] Joshua
[00:44:31] Frederick
[00:44:38] Joshua
[00:45:02] Brian
[00:45:04] Joshua
[00:45:26] Frederick
[00:45:31] Joshua
[00:45:37] Frederick
[00:45:52] Joshua
[00:46:17] They’re not
[00:46:17] Frederick
[00:46:21] Brian
[00:46:33] Joshua
[00:46:44] You get your scarves, you get your cocoa, uh,
[00:46:55] Frederick
[00:46:59] Joshua
[00:47:08] It vibes with named man. Like we’re just
[00:47:29] And I think that it’s really important
[00:47:58] Brian
[00:48:07] Joshua
[00:48:31] And so. I didn’t even change the, like, I
[00:49:02] That’s a good one.
[00:49:03] Frederick
[00:49:07] Joshua
[00:49:09] Frederick
[00:49:25] Joshua
[00:49:30] Uh, obviously, um, I, I tend to keep my
[00:49:53] Um, yeah, like mostly my brain hears people
[00:50:14] Brian
[00:50:29] Joshua
[00:50:30] Brian
[00:50:32] Joshua
[00:50:53] And so it’s like, I’m able to just
[00:51:09] Brian
[00:51:12] Frederick
[00:51:18] Brian
[00:51:25] Joshua
[00:51:30] Brian
[00:51:34] Joshua
[00:51:45] Frederick
[00:51:53] Joshua
[00:52:04] Frederick
[00:52:11] words of wisdom. Uh, do you have any parting
[00:52:19] Joshua
[00:52:42] So look at cultivating that you won’t. I
[00:52:46] Frederick
[00:52:54] Joshua
[00:52:55] Frederick
[00:53:03] Joshua
[00:53:07] I I’ve got my, I’ve got my air guitar
[00:53:10] Frederick
[00:53:11] Joshua
[00:53:30] We did it boys. We did it.
[00:53:32] Frederick
[00:53:43] Brian
[00:53:54] Joshua
[00:53:54] Frederick
[00:53:57] Joshua
[00:54:01] Frederick
[00:54:09] Brian
[00:54:13] Frederick
[00:54:15] Joshua
[00:54:17] Frederick
In this episode, we get to talk with David Portnowitz, Chief Marketing Officer at Star2Star, a Sangoma company. We discuss Star2Star, their solutions, and how they’re providing services that address the challenges of our new normal. We also delve into Marketing in the 20s and leverage the lessons learned from 2020 to ready business for the future. Additionally, we evaluate the current marketing trends and hypothesize which opportunities hold the most value.
Frederick Weiss: welcome. I am Frederick Philip von Weiss,
[00:01:38] We'll answer your questions in the order they are received. Additionally, make
[00:02:03] We have: speaker, host, bourbon connoisseur, and chief marketing officer
[00:02:17] David Portnowitz: [00:02:17] Thanks
[00:02:24] And I got to ask you about avocado labs. I'm getting hungry now.
[00:02:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:02:28] yeah, I
[00:02:44] And, just thank you so much for sharing your time with us!
[00:02:47] David Portnowitz: [00:02:47] Yeah. We
[00:02:59] Frederick Weiss: [00:02:59] That does
[00:03:04] Especially the way the world is changing. Excuse me. Just quick,
[00:03:23] So you are the CMO at Star2Star communications, a Sangoma company. Maybe
[00:03:33] David Portnowitz: [00:03:33]
[00:03:47] I've been in that role now for about three years. And previous
[00:04:03] I, and I've spent seven or eight years there doing that. And
[00:04:24] When did you start there? I started to start,
[00:04:27] Frederick Weiss: [00:04:27] I think I
[00:04:41] David Portnowitz: [00:04:41] years.
[00:04:46] 20. Yeah, let me do it fast. And Star2Star. Just for all
[00:05:10] They've got an entire suite of communication as a service products.
[00:05:27] If you've been on, I'm sure many of you have probably experienced
[00:05:45] Frederick Weiss: Let me
[00:05:58] David Portnowitz: [00:05:58] Yeah, I
[00:06:22] That we're focused on driving revenue essentially. And then
[00:06:42] One I'm not. I'm not a very, I'm not a micromanager. I think
[00:07:00] I am impatient. I will tell you that. But I also like to run the group as
[00:07:20] We want to do what we can do to help. We will go out of our way to
[00:07:35] And I think marketing for us, there has been a bit of a differentiator.
[00:07:56] All of those things are things I focus on a daily basis. And
[00:08:11] And all of those things are a balancing act. And that's
[00:08:25] Frederick Weiss: [00:08:25] Yes. And
[00:08:32] David Portnowitz: [00:08:32] Yeah.
[00:08:46] Think about it like a car dealership, right? So when you go to buy a
[00:09:07] There's probably some money in there recurring too. And once
[00:09:28] Or maybe my IT department can't handle this kind of thing. I
[00:09:41] Frederick Weiss: [00:09:41]
[00:09:51] I would be going to my a Subaru dealer.
[00:09:55] David Portnowitz: [00:09:55] Yeah.
[00:10:11] Do you have a portal we can go to and download all the assets that we
[00:10:28] They need to have, they need to be trained on what to say and how to sell
[00:10:47] They're going to provide you with tons of material, tons of content,
[00:11:06] So all of those things are part of what we do on a daily basis. Yes.
[00:11:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:10] And for
[00:11:22] David Portnowitz: [00:11:22] did you
[00:11:24] I wish they were sponsoring. Cause then maybe my Subaru, but yeah.
[00:11:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:28] Do you
[00:11:28] David Portnowitz: [00:11:28] your
[00:11:32] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:32]
[00:11:33] David Portnowitz: [00:11:35] I
[00:11:41] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:42] I saw
[00:11:50] Are there any, yeah. Is there any
[00:11:52] David Portnowitz: [00:11:54] I
[00:12:11] So they're safe, two very safe cars. Yeah. They're just just
[00:12:26] Frederick Weiss: [00:12:26] I think
[00:12:36] It had my balance out in some scenarios because of course your insurance
[00:12:44] David Portnowitz: [00:12:44] digress.
[00:12:52] I love all that.
[00:12:52] Frederick Weiss: [00:12:52] So
[00:12:57] David Portnowitz: [00:12:57] I need a
[00:12:59] Frederick Weiss: [00:12:59] I would
[00:13:02] David Portnowitz: [00:13:02] day. It
[00:13:09] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:09] again.
[00:13:13] David Portnowitz: [00:13:13] Okay. It
[00:13:18] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:18] I would
[00:13:24] David Portnowitz: [00:13:24] All
[00:13:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:28] Me too.
[00:13:29] David Portnowitz: [00:13:29] right
[00:13:31] So I don't know.
[00:13:33] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:33] Just that
[00:13:45] So David, our main topic is marketing in the roaring twenties. Ooh.
[00:13:54] David Portnowitz: [00:13:54]
[00:13:55] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:55] has
[00:13:57] David Portnowitz: [00:13:57] the arms
[00:13:59] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:59] a cross.
[00:14:07] David Portnowitz: [00:14:07] I think
[00:14:10] Icebergs
[00:14:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:14:10]
[00:14:32] And I promise I'm going somewhere where people used to drink alcohol
[00:14:49] We could be more productive and frankly, we weren't drunk as we were
[00:15:16] What happened with the coffee break is people started to become more
[00:15:42] They wouldn't take a lot of breaks, so they would work way into the
[00:15:59] David Portnowitz: [00:16:00] Yeah,
[00:16:04] Frederick Weiss: [00:16:04] How did
[00:16:05] David Portnowitz: [00:16:05] that?
[00:16:44] And. As we are getting back into the office a little bit
[00:17:02] What does that look like? For example, one of the things that I just was
[00:17:24] I think there's going to be a. Yeah. A learning curve for a lot
[00:17:53] We were fortunate enough in our. World where we didn't have to
[00:18:12] There's
[00:18:13] Frederick Weiss: [00:18:13] a thing I
[00:18:45] So that being said, how do we take advantage of that from a marketing
[00:18:53] David Portnowitz: [00:18:53] I think
[00:19:03] I think it's a rolling kind of calendar. No one knows
[00:19:18] If you look at Gartner, they put out a digital distraction document that I
[00:19:44] Yeah. Picking up your kids, all those kinds of things. And there's
[00:19:58] What are the things they're dealing with? How do we help them
[00:20:18] And if you're going to send something to them, if you're
[00:20:30] Yeah. Yeah. I I think it's all about understanding the
[00:20:40] Frederick Weiss: [00:20:40] It's
[00:21:02] David Portnowitz: [00:21:02] Wow.
[00:21:02] Frederick Weiss: [00:21:04] Like some
[00:21:05] David Portnowitz: [00:21:05] I
[00:21:18] You can't have this Idea that everyone's just going to be
[00:21:34] And to me, those are the kinds of things I think about from
[00:21:55] They want to be able to boot up quickly. They want to be able to get
[00:22:11] They want one vendor for these things. They want to be able to go to one
[00:22:19] Frederick Weiss: [00:22:19] Yeah.
[00:22:52] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Do you mind just maybe I know I just put out
[00:23:04] David Portnowitz: [00:23:04] Yeah.
[00:23:11] So let's say you're in Salesforce every day. You use
[00:23:26] You could use a thin client. If you could use a Chromebook or a
[00:23:42] Inexpensive piece of hardware and global applications. And
[00:24:05] They can't be checking Facebook. You can monitor those
[00:24:29] Those are the kinds of things you can do in a virtual
[00:24:46] It's a it's and it became more popular during the pandemic because
[00:25:02] This takes all that away. So it's just it's a very
[00:25:08] Frederick Weiss: [00:25:08] Yeah. I would say if
[00:25:24] Frederick Weiss: [00:25:24] Let's
[00:25:28] It is Virtual Event Marketing. One of the things that I know you very much
[00:25:48] We're gonna start to get back to the way things look a little
[00:26:07] Really not even that I'm being gracious.
[00:26:09] David Portnowitz: [00:26:09] Yeah. I
[00:26:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:26:11]
[00:26:24] David Portnowitz: [00:26:24]
[00:26:24] Yeah. So I think last year, the virtual events were really, really
[00:26:42] If you need to jump on a quick call, you can do that, but you're not
[00:27:03] There is an expectation that you're doing the virtual event and
[00:27:16] It was hard for me because some other people may have been
[00:27:32] I'm hoping that we can do that this year. And I think that
[00:27:50] You look at, I know you look at places like Las Vegas and
[00:28:06] I know if you have, if you have done any traveling and had in the
[00:28:26] I didn't find anything that really worked.
[00:28:29] Frederick Weiss: [00:28:29] Yeah. I
[00:28:45] Like you don't want to sit in front of the camera or the computer for
[00:28:57] David Portnowitz: [00:28:57] too
[00:29:05] People experienced it all across the world really. And it's
[00:29:34] I could do this at the same time. When you start doing those things,
[00:29:47] Frederick Weiss: [00:29:47] Yeah. And
[00:29:55] I wanted to ask you about how you re-imagined marketing through all this.
[00:30:15] Once we got a little bit down the line of 20, 21, and maybe
[00:30:27] David Portnowitz: [00:30:27] Yeah,
[00:30:49] We did several things where we mailed something to someone's house.
[00:31:05] They were, it was a time of unease, right? So people
[00:31:26] And from my driving lead standpoint, I think you really
[00:31:41] You needed to look at review sites and be, have a presence
[00:32:10] Yeah. But there are only so many levers you can pull and you
[00:32:27] Frederick Weiss: [00:32:27] Yeah,
[00:32:45] David Portnowitz: [00:32:45] No
[00:32:50] It's never like we talked about events. They're never going to be
[00:33:06] But then they'll probably slowly trend back down. When people
[00:33:21] Now I know I didn't want to do it because I think there are some
[00:33:45] They come there for a specific reason. They've most likely
[00:34:03] So I think you have to do a good job of trying to capture their attention
[00:34:17] That was one thing that you saw a lot of, I, I didn't even bring this
[00:34:34] And you're like, dude, I don't even know who you are.
[00:34:36] Frederick Weiss: [00:34:37] 10
[00:34:45] David Portnowitz: [00:34:45] Yeah, I
[00:34:58] And it is a cesspool right now to me and I have no offense to
[00:35:26] People trying to sell you something. It's just, it is tough.
[00:35:36] Frederick Weiss: [00:35:36] think it
[00:35:57] Things that they find value in, and then take that other 20% and then
[00:36:18] David Portnowitz: [00:36:18]
[00:36:18] Or you just become a Nat,
[00:36:22] Frederick Weiss: [00:36:22] just go
[00:36:22] David Portnowitz: [00:36:23] Go away.
[00:37:00] Frederick Weiss: [00:37:00] If you
[00:37:07] David Portnowitz: [00:37:07] I think
[00:37:22] But understanding that it's just one medium for that, that
[00:37:36] And I think you have to just understand how it should be. And understand
[00:38:02] Frederick Weiss: [00:38:02] I love
[00:38:21] I haven't had a chance to actually try it out yet. What do you
[00:38:39] David Portnowitz: [00:38:39] Yeah. I
[00:38:56] They just recently opened it up to open up any, anybody, their
[00:39:10] I am keen to see where it goes. You obviously see companies like
[00:39:30] I think that's an awesome thing for Twitter to do. I think
[00:39:34] Frederick Weiss: [00:39:34] doing
[00:39:42] David Portnowitz: [00:39:42] Yeah, I did.
[00:39:53] I think that's great. I'm all for that. The gig economy, I think,
[00:40:11] I'm absolutely all for that now. I think there
[00:40:33] But I do think at some point there's going to be just too
[00:41:01] Frederick Weiss: [00:41:01] Look at
[00:41:22] In, in that 15 minutes, but there's so many opportunities
[00:41:33] David Portnowitz: [00:41:33] oh yeah.
[00:41:40] And I'm getting some funny comments here. I
[00:42:06] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:06] Sorry to
[00:42:17] David Portnowitz: [00:42:17] I've
[00:42:20] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:20] think I
[00:42:26] I'm not a fan of cranberry juice in general. So
[00:42:31] David Portnowitz: [00:42:31] prefer
[00:42:36] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:36] Yes, I
[00:42:43] They did. I'm sure people went out and tried their nasty drink
[00:42:54] David Portnowitz: [00:42:54] Now that
[00:42:59] Frederick Weiss: [00:42:59] you know
[00:43:01] Sorry, but speaking of those audio platforms like we
[00:43:31] They want things that are easily digestible and they could
[00:43:54] Yeah. I know people getting more into that.
[00:43:57] David Portnowitz: [00:43:57] Yeah, I
[00:44:14] And it got stuck in the thing. So I'm like, gosh, Nike's
[00:44:30] Th did. It was like that, so I didn't have to read anything. I watched
[00:44:45] And that kind of thing I think is going to become it. Isn't
[00:45:03] Isn't tying up your people isn't driving up
[00:45:19] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:19] It's
[00:45:20] Here's an interesting comment from Jeremy again. Thank you so much,
[00:45:32] David Portnowitz: [00:45:33] Yeah.
[00:45:37] I am not the guy you want to talk to about what's popular on
[00:45:55] But I have not delved into the Tik talk. I feel like I need
[00:46:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:11] maybe you
[00:46:24] It's definitely about putting out things like marketing tips or
[00:46:42] David Portnowitz: [00:46:42] on. Do I
[00:46:51] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:51] They do
[00:46:57] So yeah, I'm going to say that's mandatory.
[00:47:00] David Portnowitz: [00:47:00] All
[00:47:02] Frederick Weiss: [00:47:02] I
[00:47:03] David Portnowitz: [00:47:03] Oh
[00:47:07] Frederick Weiss: [00:47:07] I know
[00:47:28] For example if you are in Washington, DC and you're in
[00:47:48] Okay.
[00:47:49] David Portnowitz: [00:47:49] You have
[00:48:16] If you're, if you've got a retail if you've got a retail
[00:48:35] It has all the things that you would think about in a social
[00:48:51] And from a local SEM standpoint you need to. Be
[00:49:12] You've got to put videos out, that talk about that. You've got to
[00:49:27] To me, if you're a small business, that's local there
[00:49:41] Frederick Weiss: [00:49:41] Well said
[00:49:49] We're getting really short on time here. So I want to get to the
[00:50:01] David Portnowitz: [00:50:01] while I
[00:50:02] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:02] I was a
[00:50:19] David Portnowitz: [00:50:19] My
[00:50:26] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:26] You
[00:50:28] David Portnowitz: [00:50:28]
[00:50:37] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:37] I
[00:50:42] That is my humor. Just being funny. What book are you reading right now
[00:50:49] David Portnowitz: [00:50:49] I just
[00:51:03] And I just got that and I, I got that two days ago, so I'm
[00:51:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:10] that
[00:51:13] David Portnowitz: [00:51:13] Hold on.
[00:51:18] It's called a project.
[00:51:22] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:22] Ooh.
[00:51:34] David Portnowitz: [00:51:34] Are you
[00:51:36] I can, I
[00:51:39] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:39] I'll
[00:51:43] David Portnowitz: [00:51:43] it. I
[00:51:57] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:57] I think
[00:52:03] Tell me a little bit about your bourbon collector.
[00:52:05] David Portnowitz: [00:52:05] What do
[00:52:19] Frederick Weiss: [00:52:19] Then
[00:52:21] David Portnowitz: [00:52:21] I like a
[00:52:36] Maybe it has a little bit of that vanilla or nutmeg and/or cherry flavor.
[00:53:00] You're trying to find new bottles that are not you can't buy
[00:53:39] And I was like, are you, it's fine. Just let her hold him. And he was
[00:53:48] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:48] got you.
[00:53:50] David Portnowitz: [00:53:50] So I was
[00:53:57] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:57] I love
[00:54:02] David Portnowitz: [00:54:02]
[00:54:07] I see there's a tic-tac right there. Yeah. I guess ocean spray. If
[00:54:23] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:23] I love
[00:54:24] All right, David, let's get to our very last segment here
[00:54:31] again. Excellent dancing applause. By the way, you look very dapper today
[00:54:47] David Portnowitz: [00:54:47] Parting
[00:54:52] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:52]
[00:54:53] Excellent. Any kind of marketing stuff.
[00:54:56] David Portnowitz: [00:54:56]
[00:54:59] Frederick Weiss: [00:54:59] Maybe
[00:55:00] David Portnowitz: [00:55:00] No, I
[00:55:19] Making sure you're ready for them to come to you and making sure
[00:55:38] They're the lifeblood of what you're doing and make sure
[00:55:47] Frederick Weiss: [00:55:47] Those are
[00:55:56] And the website for Star2Star.com. You can find him on LinkedIn and
[00:56:17] Thank you
[00:56:17] David Portnowitz: [00:56:17] so much.
[00:56:23] Frederick Weiss: [00:56:23] Yeah, absolutely.
In this episode, we get to talk with Baskar Rao Dandlamudi, Santosh Hari, Super Di, Faisal Abid, Sivamuthu Kumar, Todd Libby, Vincent Tang, Tessa, Jared Rhodes, and Stacy Devino. It all began with a tweet; we should do a show where we connect with some of our best conference friends and have a virtual conference… So we did, check it out ❤️
We also discuss COVID: Going to events, work-life balance, and should/can we go back to the office.
Brian Hinton: [00:00:00] I’m Brian
Frederick Weiss: and
[00:00:46] Brian Hinton: [00:00:46] and do tech good.
[00:00:52] Frederick Weiss: Yeah, thanks everybody for watching the show. If you can please go to the notification
Brian Hinton: We’d like to thank Auth0, Auth0 is
[00:01:52] Frederick Weiss: [00:01:52] Yes. Thanks Auth0! Let’s go ahead and welcome our guests. We
[00:02:19] Frederick Weiss: [00:02:19] So many
[00:02:45] And, uh, these are the people that we see at the conferences. These are
[00:03:01] Sivamuthu Kumar: [00:03:01] So not a
[00:03:05] Yes. Um, so last year, like, uh, I just missed, um, seeing people saved my
[00:03:35] So it's good. It's good to see you again. Um, after like one year
[00:03:57] Frederick Weiss: [00:03:57] Right.
[00:04:13] Super Di: [00:04:13] I don't
[00:04:20] Hello everybody. I'm Diana Rodriguez. You all know me as a cotufa.
[00:04:54] And I know this is going to bring up a lot of, um, commentary and polemic,
[00:05:23] Brian Hinton: [00:05:23] Yeah, I do
[00:05:40] So I just want to put that out there.
[00:05:42] Frederick Weiss: [00:05:42] Yeah,
[00:06:10] Going back to an office environment, there's been a lot of studies and
[00:06:30] Plus, uh, variant. So, um, speaking of low-key, uh, we'll get to that,
[00:06:40] Santosh Hari: [00:06:40] Yeah, so I,
[00:06:52] So if I entertained any ideas of going back to any office, until then
[00:07:14] So, you know, it's, uh, it's gonna take a while for me to go to any kind of
[00:07:27] Stacy Devino: [00:07:27] Uh, yeah, I
[00:07:58] So, um, I think I need to live for my baby to live. So I'm going to go
[00:08:19] Uh, not everybody shares that same opinion. It's okay. Um, but when it
[00:08:56] Um, and of course, visiting with family now comfortably, we waited until,
[00:09:22] I have been fully writing for the last three years. So, um, I'm not
[00:09:45] Cause we got all these pinball machines and arcades and I made a lot of
[00:10:12] And to that effect, we've seen that the prices that people are able to
[00:10:31] Frederick Weiss: [00:10:31] day.
[00:10:39] Um, uh, maybe anybody else here that also, uh, lives in Florida.
[00:11:08] Uh, there's some kind of duplicity going on here. I don't, I
[00:11:28] What do people do in that case?
[00:11:29] Brian Hinton: [00:11:29] Well, I can
[00:11:41] Frederick Weiss: [00:11:41] Yeah.
[00:11:44] Faisal Abid: [00:11:44] So fully
[00:12:00] I don't have to go from like nine to five or 10 to six, you know, I do
[00:12:18] Uh, you can actually get a lot more done. I do find myself doing a lot
[00:12:36] And then it's lunchtime. So you go on an hour lunch, right? Because
[00:12:58] But even so, you have a good webcam, good microphone. You can have good
[00:13:06] Frederick Weiss: [00:13:06]
[00:13:21] If it, uh, allows for you to work remotely, if you were a developer or
[00:13:32] Brian Hinton: [00:13:32] I do want to
[00:13:41] His background is amazing. I don't know, like
[00:13:45] Faisal Abid: [00:13:45] working
[00:13:47] Brian Hinton: [00:13:47] I can
[00:13:50] Stacy Devino: [00:13:50] Yeah.
[00:13:51] Tessa: [00:13:51] I like, I guess I
[00:14:08] Stacy Devino: [00:14:08] will
[00:14:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:14:11] Well,
[00:14:22] Super Di: [00:14:22] special case?
[00:14:43] Um, and I've been working remotely since 2015. So I've seen the
[00:15:08] Brian Hinton: [00:15:08] that's
[00:15:11] Baskar Rao Dandlamudi: [00:15:11]
[00:15:41] Uh, but over here, uh, it is a general sentiment that at least once in a
[00:15:46] Jared Rhodes: [00:15:46] Uh,
[00:15:48] Baskar Rao Dandlamudi: [00:15:48] a
[00:15:55] Jared Rhodes: [00:15:55] that's
[00:15:57] Frederick Weiss: [00:15:57] my
[00:16:05] Like if they're looking to see like what, I don't know, like, uh,
[00:16:28] Um, I don't know. Well,
[00:16:30] Faisal Abid: [00:16:30] now, now
[00:16:56] But what I found was that, you know, it was very hard to hire anyone
[00:17:20] And so what I started to do was find this, I tapped into this massive,
[00:17:43] And, you know, cloud consulting is very lucrative. And so what I started
[00:17:51] Jared Rhodes: [00:17:51] would pay a
[00:17:53] Faisal Abid: [00:17:53] in Canada.
[00:18:07] And so we've been able to do that for six, seven months. Uh, and now
[00:18:25] A developer in Bangladesh working. And we're not, he's not having
[00:18:46] We're happy. We're getting good quality work. And then it also
[00:19:12] It
[00:19:12] Frederick Weiss: [00:19:12] makes a
[00:19:33] And also if you're going to keep up with, with a giant office on, you
[00:19:51] When you could be more focused on hiring talent, for sure.
[00:19:55] Faisal Abid: [00:19:55] We were
[00:20:23] This high-speed internet access. If that promise can be lived, you know,
[00:20:45] So if we can't even have a basic video chat, then it gets really hard
[00:21:06] A lot of North American developers compete with North America, Toronto
[00:21:21] So they just have grit. And I think it will be very interesting for the
[00:21:27] Brian Hinton: [00:21:27] I do. I do
[00:21:42] I mean, I feel like they could probably get it and like zoom calls, but,
[00:21:51] Frederick Weiss: [00:21:51] Well,
[00:22:02] Um, I'm an introvert, that doesn't mean I'm shy. It means I
[00:22:23] I
[00:22:23] Tessa: [00:22:23] means also when
[00:22:37] Faisal Abid: [00:22:37] One thing I
[00:22:45] I am very biased because I'm a senior. I've been in the industry
[00:23:05] Cause I've screwed up so many times, uh, early on in my career. But
[00:23:22] And I don't know what the solution is. If companies go remote.
[00:23:28] Stacy Devino: [00:23:28] I think I
[00:24:04] Um, and, and essentially you, as somebody who's higher up is kind of.
[00:24:40] I do
[00:24:41] Brian Hinton: [00:24:41] think
[00:25:03] You're Kantz cause you're in Kentucky or, or New York or wherever.
[00:25:22] Frederick Weiss: [00:25:22] I had a
[00:25:27] Felt so isolated. They were walking by a fire hydrant and they heard it
[00:25:40] well,
[00:25:41] Brian Hinton: [00:25:41] two of them
[00:25:48] Frederick Weiss: [00:25:48] Brian is
[00:26:04] It says, um, according to, um, well, a lot of recent studies that were
[00:26:28] Um, or sometimes they were the only ones to take care of the kid while,
[00:26:43] Stacy Devino: [00:26:43] I think
[00:26:48] Like that was, that was already something that was brought up and I'll
[00:27:18] And so, you know, uh, it became, and while I was still breastfeeding and
[00:27:47] I pretty much always do that now, um, for everybody, but then he also
[00:28:12] And there are a lot of undo, extra, I guess, extra responsibilities that
[00:28:48] It seems like two, people's you shair the responsibility? Uh, a
[00:28:52] Frederick Weiss: [00:28:52] little
[00:28:53] Brian Hinton: [00:28:53] I do also
[00:29:11] So it's also women who are being disproportionately impacted by, you
[00:29:20] Faisal Abid: [00:29:20] uh, yeah.
[00:29:22] Frederick Weiss: [00:29:22] I,
[00:29:23] Brian Hinton: [00:29:23] other than
[00:29:25] Frederick Weiss: [00:29:25] Yeah.
[00:29:26] Super Di: [00:29:26] What about, um,
[00:29:40] But with the coronavirus and being in lockdown, it became like home was
[00:30:14] At the end of the day, the end result is what really matters versus you
[00:30:43] And I think this is a new, um, chance to rethink how we measure success
[00:31:08] Stacy Devino: [00:31:08] can be
[00:31:09] Super Di: [00:31:09] toxic if. I
[00:31:18] Stacy Devino: [00:31:18]
[00:31:21] Faisal Abid: [00:31:21] It's
[00:31:50] Um, in, especially in a very remote, decentralized environment. I think
[00:32:09] Frederick Weiss: [00:32:09] I often
[00:32:25] But how about the other way around with the company don't confuse? Um,
[00:32:40] Faisal Abid: [00:32:40] ultimately
[00:32:45] You have to charge by value, right? Um, because it's the value of
[00:33:06] Uh, I should be paying the Mac tire project fee because I have experienced
[00:33:22] Vincent Tang: [00:33:22] actually a
[00:33:32] And they had an issue where it's like, oh, we have a systematic
[00:33:55] And the bill is for 10 grand. And then the company is like, why are we,
[00:34:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:34:11] line item
[00:34:13] Vincent Tang: [00:34:13] And it just
[00:35:01] So the other thing I think we should address is, uh, the, uh, you know,
[00:35:22] And then I may catch up at night. So how do other people do that? Is that
[00:35:29] Faisal Abid: [00:35:29] crazy?
[00:35:30] Vincent Tang: [00:35:30] Oh, I do
[00:35:46] And you know, as long as you're getting your meetings and like
[00:36:07] And I think that a lot really matters. And also another bonus of worker
[00:36:25] That's necessarily the meeting though, to facilitate what we're
[00:36:31] Tessa: [00:36:31] bonus. I hate
[00:36:42] And I think it becomes a problem when that's an expectation. Cause I
[00:36:51] Stacy Devino: [00:36:51]
[00:36:55] Brian Hinton: [00:36:55] Definitely
[00:36:56] Santosh Hari: [00:36:56] act as if
[00:37:02] Brian Hinton: [00:37:02] not be in
[00:37:05] Frederick Weiss: [00:37:05] Yeah.
[00:37:07] Vincent Tang: [00:37:07] Well, so
[00:37:21] And these are like the meet Jessica to the meeting, but you also have
[00:37:38] They need a product expert related to that specific topic. Um, you could
[00:37:48] Tessa: [00:37:48] Yeah, I think they
[00:38:03] Brian Hinton: [00:38:03] Yeah. And
[00:38:19] Frederick Weiss: [00:38:19] No, no
[00:38:23] Vincent Tang: [00:38:23] prefers
[00:38:26] And like, after that, like no meetings for like several days in a row.
[00:38:48] Um, so it's actually been a Wellston cheer in India.
[00:38:52] Brian Hinton: [00:38:52] I really am
[00:38:55] Frederick Weiss: [00:38:55] way, I
[00:39:00] Vincent Tang: [00:39:00] Oh. Since I
[00:39:06] Frederick Weiss: [00:39:06] he's
[00:39:14] Yeah.
[00:39:16] Vincent Tang: [00:39:16] Yeah. Well,
[00:39:21] Frederick Weiss: [00:39:21] now
[00:39:25] Baskar Rao Dandlamudi: [00:39:25]
[00:39:40] So one day a week is a no meeting day, uh, across the company. And, uh, we
[00:40:09] Uh, so I don't want to, uh, concentrate on what people need to
[00:40:37] Like at what point of time you are looking green on your messenger or when
[00:41:04] If you have teams on mobile, uh, I think, uh, some few days back before,
[00:41:26] Right.
[00:41:27] Frederick Weiss: [00:41:27] So
[00:41:51] Yeah. I just
[00:41:51] Faisal Abid: [00:41:51] thought
[00:41:51] Baskar Rao Dandlamudi: [00:41:51]
[00:41:53] Sivamuthu Kumar: [00:41:53] about
[00:42:12] So it's more like a family. And also like, they, they just like, uh,
[00:42:33] Faisal Abid: [00:42:33] date.
[00:42:35] Brian Hinton: [00:42:35] What I want
[00:42:56] Okay. Let's just turn the camera up, or put something over it. Like,
[00:43:05] Frederick Weiss: [00:43:05] nature,
[00:43:06] Brian Hinton: [00:43:06] I think. Oh
[00:43:11] Frederick Weiss: [00:43:11] If
[00:43:12] Jared Rhodes: [00:43:12] meetings for
[00:43:20] Frederick Weiss: [00:43:20]
[00:43:22] Jared Rhodes: [00:43:22] When you
[00:43:24] Vincent Tang: [00:43:24] like steps
[00:43:53] Super Di: [00:43:53] that was so
[00:43:56] Stacy Devino: [00:43:56] He really
[00:44:27] Uh, get a boom stand, put a decent camera up there. Um, you had a little
[00:44:37] Brian Hinton: [00:44:37] Stacy, do
[00:44:40] Stacy Devino: [00:44:40] do not have
[00:44:43] Frederick Weiss: [00:44:43] Nine
[00:44:44] Stacy Devino: [00:44:44] nine
[00:44:57] Cause I forgot about my, uh, my IRS, uh, Alps, quite a click build.
[00:45:03] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:03] Are they
[00:45:05] Stacy Devino: [00:45:05] Are they all
[00:45:32] It would blind you. This is like half brightness
[00:45:35] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:35] or
[00:45:37] Brian Hinton: [00:45:37] Yeah. Audio
[00:45:42] Stacy Devino: [00:45:42] there's
[00:45:46] Brian Hinton: [00:45:46] Can, you can
[00:45:51] Frederick Weiss: [00:45:51] Um,
[00:45:52] Super Di: [00:45:52] does it pew
[00:45:59] Stacy Devino: [00:45:59] and
[00:46:01] Super Di: [00:46:01] is the white
[00:46:08] Stacy Devino: [00:46:08] like rolling
[00:46:20] Yeah. So I even, uh, everything is near
[00:46:25] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:25] where you
[00:46:26] Super Di: [00:46:26] find it when
[00:46:31] Brian Hinton: [00:46:31] Yeah.
[00:46:40] Stacy Devino: [00:46:40] right. Like,
[00:46:44] Brian Hinton: [00:46:44] I
[00:46:45] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:45] backed
[00:46:49] Stacy Devino: [00:46:49] I like my
[00:46:50] Super Di: [00:46:50] crone.
[00:46:50] Frederick Weiss: [00:46:50] I'm
[00:46:55] Super Di: [00:46:55] six and I have a
[00:47:04] Frederick Weiss: [00:47:04] playing.
[00:47:07] Stacy Devino: [00:47:07] it. I gotta
[00:47:12] Super Di: [00:47:12] printing my own
[00:47:17] It's so messy that I haven't done it in like six
[00:47:21] Stacy Devino: [00:47:21] months.
[00:47:36] Super Di: [00:47:36] Ms. Guilty, this
[00:47:45] And I haven't bitten the beat for the
[00:47:49] Frederick Weiss: [00:47:49]
[00:47:55] I mean,
[00:47:59] Super Di: [00:47:59] You just meant
[00:48:28] I mean, I'm going to play one, your Porsche dish with everything.
[00:48:32] Frederick Weiss: [00:48:32] Show me
[00:48:33] Brian Hinton: [00:48:33] chair. Stacy
[00:48:42] So
[00:48:42] Stacy Devino: [00:48:42] you'd
[00:48:53] And I also designed and printed the key cap. For the top row. And you can
[00:49:15] And I'm just like, um, if you need it, here you go. And here's a
[00:49:38] Like why do I have, why do I have so many fountain pens? Why do I have so
[00:49:47] Brian Hinton: [00:49:47] Well, what
[00:49:57] Frederick Weiss: [00:49:57] because
[00:49:59] I don't want to do that. And don't clean as you're cooking.
[00:50:06] Brian Hinton: [00:50:06] um, yeah. I
[00:50:12] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:12] no, no.
[00:50:18] Brian Hinton: [00:50:18] the giant
[00:50:22] Frederick Weiss: [00:50:22] if you
[00:50:26] Stop judging you. I love you. And I love the giant mess that you are. And
[00:50:34] Stacy Devino: [00:50:34] just
[00:50:50] The kitchen is clean. Everything's ready to go. That sir. That's
[00:51:10] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:10] And the
[00:51:12] Brian Hinton: [00:51:12] made me feel
[00:51:16] Stacy Devino: [00:51:16] I am just
[00:51:19] Frederick Weiss: [00:51:19] we're
[00:51:33] Super Di: [00:51:33] apologize, but I
[00:51:40] it's for diabetic patients, it's called Scouts X dash mobile
[00:52:03] They can actually forward location and blood sugar levels in case of
[00:52:34] And this, I know as it, has saved my life and my ideas, you know, to make
[00:52:47] Frederick Weiss: [00:52:47] I love
[00:52:52] Brian Hinton: [00:52:52] have
[00:52:52] Faisal Abid: [00:52:52] an
[00:52:53] Jared Rhodes: [00:52:53] article
[00:52:58] Frederick Weiss: [00:52:58] Nice.
[00:53:02] Jared Rhodes: [00:53:02] It is about
[00:53:08] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:08] right up
[00:53:12] Brian Hinton: [00:53:12] Can you
[00:53:12] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:12] read that
[00:53:13] Brian Hinton: [00:53:13] out loud
[00:53:20] Jared Rhodes: [00:53:20] just did.
[00:53:21] Brian Hinton: [00:53:21] Oh yeah.
[00:53:27] Baskar Rao Dandlamudi: [00:53:27]
[00:53:44] So that's, uh, that stuff, which I'm working out, uh, currently
[00:53:58] Frederick Weiss: [00:53:58] like,
[00:53:59] Santosh Hari: [00:53:59] So last
[00:54:27] So yeah. Interesting experience. Um, I think that's what we'll
[00:54:53] Uh, as you know, they were well organized.
[00:54:59] Stacy Devino: [00:54:59] Uh, I've
[00:55:36] Vincent Tang: [00:55:36] that
[00:55:36] Brian Hinton: [00:55:36] Montse
[00:55:46] Vincent Tang: [00:55:46] is actually
[00:56:07] And once like five or six different shelters. And they kind of got a feel
[00:56:29] And I was like, if he's still there, this is the cat I wanna adopt.
[00:57:00] Uh, other things that are new, I actually just did my first dance
[00:57:17] Frederick Weiss: [00:57:17] Yeah,
[00:57:26] Don't give us
[00:57:30] video of me.
[00:57:34] Grab
[00:57:34] Jared Rhodes: [00:57:34] the
[00:57:38] Frederick Weiss: [00:57:38] put up
[00:57:47] Faisal Abid: [00:57:47] Although I
[00:57:50] Vincent Tang: [00:57:50] I did learn
[00:57:54] Frederick Weiss: [00:57:54]
[00:57:54] Brian Hinton: [00:57:54] just digging
[00:57:57] Stacy Devino: [00:57:57] guitar.
[00:58:00] Frederick Weiss: [00:58:00] Okay.
[00:58:04] Vincent Tang: [00:58:04] I'm
[00:58:05] Frederick Weiss: [00:58:05] way.
[00:58:06] Brian Hinton: [00:58:06] He lied.
[00:58:10] Jared Rhodes: [00:58:10] He
[00:58:12] Brian Hinton: [00:58:12] heart and
[00:58:15] Tessa: [00:58:15] says, pass might be
[00:58:18] That's
[00:58:18] Vincent Tang: [00:58:18] true neon.
[00:58:28] Frederick Weiss: [00:58:28] I need to
[00:58:46] hotel, California?
[00:58:51] Vincent Tang: [00:58:51] stairway
[00:58:51] Frederick Weiss: [00:58:51] to
[00:58:56] Vincent Tang: [00:58:56] the Beatles,
[00:59:10] Tessa: [00:59:10] We had to play in
[00:59:11] Vincent Tang: [00:59:11] you,
[00:59:12] Yeah.
[00:59:35] Self in times of stress.
[00:59:43] Frederick Weiss: [00:59:43]
[01:00:12] Brian Hinton: [01:00:12] Oh,
[01:00:13] Vincent Tang: [01:00:13] that is
[01:00:16] Frederick Weiss: [01:00:16] that
[01:00:25] Jared Rhodes: [01:00:25] was,
[01:00:34] Faisal Abid: [01:00:34] can we do the
[01:00:42] Frederick Weiss: [01:00:42] How
[01:01:02] Stacy Devino: [01:01:02] I
[01:01:02] Tessa: [01:01:02] don't have
[01:01:09] Frederick Weiss: [01:01:09]
[01:01:13] Thank you. Anybody else?
[01:01:15] Vincent Tang: [01:01:15] Oh, I have a podcast
[01:01:17] Vincent Tang: [01:01:17] too.
[01:01:35] If you're versed in DevOps, we've got something for everybody.
[01:01:45] Frederick Weiss: [01:01:45] show
[01:01:53] Brian Hinton: [01:01:53] Cool. Thank
[01:01:55] Thanks for joining us. It's always great to talk with you all.
[01:02:00] Frederick Weiss: [01:02:00] Oh yeah.
[01:02:07] Jared Rhodes: [01:02:07] I got a
[01:02:11] Frederick Weiss: [01:02:11] what you
[01:02:13] Jared Rhodes: [01:02:13] It's
[01:02:22] Faisal Abid: [01:02:22] device of
[01:02:24] Frederick Weiss: [01:02:24] Nice.
[01:02:29] Jared Rhodes: [01:02:29] we're
[01:02:42] Frederick Weiss: [01:02:42] Thank you
[01:02:49] Faisal Abid: [01:02:49] um, the apart
[01:02:52] Baskar Rao Dandlamudi: [01:02:52]
[01:02:56] Uh, so that's what we do. And, uh, we do monthly meetups and a annual
[01:03:03] conference.
[01:03:04] Frederick Weiss: [01:03:04] Nice.
[01:03:30] Thank you so much, Brian. Do you have anything? Nope.
[01:03:34] Brian Hinton: [01:03:34] Under nerds,
[01:03:35] Faisal Abid: [01:03:35] Subscribe.
[01:03:37] Frederick Weiss: [01:03:37] Thanks
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