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3. CFM: Matthew 1 and Luke 1
Original title: Born of a Virgin
In this episode, Skyler and Brendon discuss distinctions in Mormon and Creedal Christian thinking on the doctrine of the virgin birth. Our discussion springboards off of the "Come, Follow Me" Sunday School manual used by the LDS church, which covers Matthew 1 and Luke 1. This lesson is called: "Be it unto Me According to Thy Word"
Some LDS/Mormon sources cited:
- The Virgin Birth according to LDS leaders (Sandra Tanner)
- JD 1: 46-53 : Brigham Young
- JD 4:218 : Brigham Young
- JD 11:268 : Brigham Young
- The Seer, p. 158-159: Orson Pratt
- Jesus The Christ (ch. 7, p. 77 under the heading Annunciation to the Virgin) by James Talmage
- What Mormons Think of Christ (p.27, official pamphlet)
- Diagram mentioned is on this page (from the current year)
- Achieving A Celestial Marriage, student manual
- The God of Brigham Young (Jason Wallace)
Notes: Westminster Larger Catechism Q.1 is a useful point of comparison with what seems to be the equivalent in LDS scripture: Moses 1:39.
On God Most High, or the Most High God being, biblically, the one and the same as The Lord - pay attention to even the parallelism in some of these passages (to pick just a sample): Gen. 14. 18-22, Deut. 6. 4-5, Isaiah 43.10-13, 44.6-8, 45. 5-8, 18-19 and in the Psalms: 9.1-2, 16.1-2, 18.13, 83.18, 95.3, 97.9
And, yes - virgin conception is a more precise way to talk about it; however, this issue is normally talked about under the label "virgin-birth".
Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (ch10, 20)
- Origen, First Principles (Book 1, chapter 2)
- Tertullian, Against Praxeas (ch. 27)
- Leo the Great (Feast of the Nativity, VI)
- Kontakion on the Nativity, verses 1, 2, 3, and 24 (Romanos the Melodist)
One point that we were unable to discuss was the nature of these gospels, as they describe themselves in passages such as Luke 1. 1-4. For those interested in an example of a Christian exposition of this passage, listen here (Terry Johnson) - or speaking on the issue more generally, here and here.
Further Resources:
Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (Michael Horton)
The True Meaning of Christmas (Bishop Fulton Sheen)
Was Jesus Really Born of a Virgin? by Brandon Crowe
The Virgin Birth of Christ by J. Gresham Machen
On a few common claims often made against Matthew 1/Luke 1 (here and here and here and here and here and here)
View all episodes
By Brendon Scoggin and Skyler HamiltonOriginal title: Born of a Virgin
In this episode, Skyler and Brendon discuss distinctions in Mormon and Creedal Christian thinking on the doctrine of the virgin birth. Our discussion springboards off of the "Come, Follow Me" Sunday School manual used by the LDS church, which covers Matthew 1 and Luke 1. This lesson is called: "Be it unto Me According to Thy Word"
Some LDS/Mormon sources cited:
- The Virgin Birth according to LDS leaders (Sandra Tanner)
- JD 1: 46-53 : Brigham Young
- JD 4:218 : Brigham Young
- JD 11:268 : Brigham Young
- The Seer, p. 158-159: Orson Pratt
- Jesus The Christ (ch. 7, p. 77 under the heading Annunciation to the Virgin) by James Talmage
- What Mormons Think of Christ (p.27, official pamphlet)
- Diagram mentioned is on this page (from the current year)
- Achieving A Celestial Marriage, student manual
- The God of Brigham Young (Jason Wallace)
Notes: Westminster Larger Catechism Q.1 is a useful point of comparison with what seems to be the equivalent in LDS scripture: Moses 1:39.
On God Most High, or the Most High God being, biblically, the one and the same as The Lord - pay attention to even the parallelism in some of these passages (to pick just a sample): Gen. 14. 18-22, Deut. 6. 4-5, Isaiah 43.10-13, 44.6-8, 45. 5-8, 18-19 and in the Psalms: 9.1-2, 16.1-2, 18.13, 83.18, 95.3, 97.9
And, yes - virgin conception is a more precise way to talk about it; however, this issue is normally talked about under the label "virgin-birth".
Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (ch10, 20)
- Origen, First Principles (Book 1, chapter 2)
- Tertullian, Against Praxeas (ch. 27)
- Leo the Great (Feast of the Nativity, VI)
- Kontakion on the Nativity, verses 1, 2, 3, and 24 (Romanos the Melodist)
One point that we were unable to discuss was the nature of these gospels, as they describe themselves in passages such as Luke 1. 1-4. For those interested in an example of a Christian exposition of this passage, listen here (Terry Johnson) - or speaking on the issue more generally, here and here.
Further Resources:
Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (Michael Horton)
The True Meaning of Christmas (Bishop Fulton Sheen)
Was Jesus Really Born of a Virgin? by Brandon Crowe
The Virgin Birth of Christ by J. Gresham Machen
On a few common claims often made against Matthew 1/Luke 1 (here and here and here and here and here and here)