For this episode we invited two important figures when it comes to change: Arie van Bennekum, co-author of the Agile Manifesto, and Holger Rathgeber, bestselling author for leadership and change.

We wanted to bring together the two of them because there are many touch points between agile transformation and change – but how big is it? What can organizations experiencing significant changes learn from agilists? What is necessary to make change happen?