Dirk is joined by Daniel Hand, therapeutic counselor and author of "Role-playing Games in Psychotherapy: A Practitioners Guide". Together, the pair discusses Daniel's journey into TTRPGs and his process of introducing them into his practice, and eventually designing his own game for therapeutic purposes. Topics include adjusting crunch, the benefits and difficulties of using games in therapy, what kinds of issues they can help with, and what the future of this treatment modality might look like.