On the podcast today we have a lovely conversation with Derek Ashauer. He's been working with WordPress for many years, and has gone through a few changes during that time. I suspect that many of you will really identify with this podcast. The idea that you're a web developer, plugin / theme / block author, content creator etc. might suit you for a while, but perhaps you've had itchy feet from time to time. Derek certainly has! He started out building websites in decades ago, but for a variety of reasons this did not seem to be 'the thing' that he wanted to do year after year. And so, in 2013 he decided to turn his attention into plugin development. Success (whatever that means) always seemed to be a little further into the future. Although his Sunshine Photocart plugin was doing fine, it was not the end of the road. You'll hear Derek explain that he's not that comfortable with marketing, having a more self deprecating demeanour (he fits right in here). So this podcast is all about listening to a nice person talking about how to transition from being an agency, dealing with clients, to being a product owner. Just lovely!