“It’s about kicking down doors and taking people to see things,” says Andrew Braddock, about how to change the views and perceptions of those in charge, over lunch with Leon Daniels OBE.

Andrew – a public transport pioneer, who had a long and distinguished career with the National Bus Company and then Transport for London - chats with Leon about what we could do to change transport for the better.

He knows all about making change happen as when working in London he was the first pathfinder into the world of accessible buses, something that’s now universal and taken for granted. 

Under his watch, the UK’s first buses accessible for people with disabilities were introduced and he knows how hard it can be to change established views.

They talk about the possible ways out of the current pandemic for public transport, and Andrew argues why the general media’s predictions of the amount of working-from-home (WFH) in the future are exaggerated.

Andrew and Leon mull over how to replace the tax revenue from fuel duty, as the UK moves to an electric car future – and that opens up a bigger conversation about the ‘honesty’ that voters need to have about tax.

And, in a wide-ranging conversation they also cover topics as diverse as asparagus, cherries and trolleybuses…