This is the first part of the interview with the woman who wrote the screenplay for the 2020 released film 'Tove,' which is the story of Tove Jansson who is the creator of the worldwide phenomenon 'The Moomins'

Included in Jessica's Gems is a conversation about gesticulation and what different gestures can mean.

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Transcript:

Speaker 1: (00:08)

This is the podcast where we interview interesting guests and teach English at the same time. In this podcast, we have a very special guest. She's an actress and a writer from Finland it's Eeva Putro. This was recorded in a very early part of 2021

 

Speaker 2: (00:28)

Your, I'll take your idea and, throw it straight back to you. Okay. How would you describe yourself given three adjectives? So you can only use three adjectives. How would you describe yourself? Happy, creative, um, crazy in a good way. Crazy crazy. I've watched you mean crazy. I'm crazy about learning new things and crazy about, um, practicing, practicing my profession, practicing my favorite things. Okay. Well, can I add one word in, can I put one word in? I don't know you very well, but I getting to know you a bit now, um, over the last few months, and I would put determined, determined, or you're one of the most determined people I've ever met. So I would definitely think you're determine, okay. Now what things inspire you Eeva you're in a creative industry and so you must sort of be inspired I guess, by other people's projects.

 

Speaker 2: (01:43)

Um, I'd say challenges inspire me always. Um, if I get something like some like a new role or a new challenge, um, in my work, it always gets me inspired, especially when, when I, when I have, uh, the opportunity to work with his inspiring persons and so other people. And can you think of, uh, a challenge that's been put upon you that you found the most inspiring? Is there some sort of example you can, you can think of perhaps language like speech, uh, how to, um, how to learn new accent or things like that. Um, that you're trying to sort of get to a position where you can do a British accent when needed or, when you're auditioning and also an American accent, and I've seen the kind of things that you sort of what you've sort of practiced and what kind of journey you've, you're going on, or presently going on, you know, so, so I have a little bit of an insight for that, which brings me, how do I know you Eeva how do you know me?

 

Speaker 2: (03:14)

I know you, um, cause I went to Arbis, uh, course to take a course in English pronunciation. And you were the teacher that's right. And, and what, what led you to, I mean, that was obviously the first time I saw you, but what were the steps leading up to that? Why were you on that course? I was there because, uh, I had just, just sort of started with my, um, new agent with my first international agent and started to, um, do self-tapes in English. And I, I had realized that I urgently need to, um, improve my English. So I decided to find a way to get better in this field. Yeah. And it has, your English has got better from a teacher point of view from seeing, you know, kind of where you, uh, when you first came to the steps that you've made to the improvement you've made.

 

Speaker 2: (04:26)

It's incredible. Absolutely. And I appreciate your help, like highly, because, uh, that course was something like, it, it felt like it was, um, secret weapon or how would you put it? I think that's, that's a good way of putting it. It gave you an insight into using a tool. What was that tool ever for people that are listening, you learned? The tool was, uh, the symbols, because, um, it helps, uh, people like me who, um, who, who are very, uh, visual to understand the sound, which are like different from finish sounds. And we can like organize them for yourself. So you're talking about the international phonetic alphabet symbols. Exactly. Which you probably may have seen in the past, but you, you really took it on board to learn them with a great determination and you did learn them. And, and, um, you know, um, you were, it really improve your reading and everything.

 

Speaker 2: (05:38)

Once you knew the symbols. Yeah. Nowadays I can, um, write like easily with symbols. And it helps me a lot when I, when I see a word, which is not, uh, familiar for me, I can like find out how to pronounce it and, and do it like with only by seeing the symbols. And that helps so much. You, you can' I know you can, I know you can read phonetics and what I mean, just for the benefit of anyone that's listening. When we have a session together nowadays, we often read from the same screen, don't we, we read short stories, et cetera. And I think you've, you now have, you can guess what a word would be in English now, even if you don't know that word, and that is your somehow the patterns of English, which let's face it a very strange at times, phonetically speaking, think you very, very often, even if the word is new, will guess it gets it correctly.

 

Speaker 2: (06:47)

And that that's that somehow those phonetics have really helped. You got a feeling that you, you you've somehow got a feeling for it now, which, which is great, which is, which is very inspiring. For those, because obviously this, um, podcast, there might be people listening all over the world. I don't know. There might be three people listening or no people listening, but one day hopefully someone in the Philippines or somewhere, someone in the Far East, um, may listen to this. So you are an actress in Finland and you're also a writer in Finland. So then you have two, two professions going on. If you like, you're most famous, I think for your, for the project that you did in 2020, I think I'm, I don't know much about, um, you know, production in Finland. I have to say. I mean, there's lots of celebrities that I don't even know to be honest, but what was the biggest project you did that came out in 2020?

 

Speaker 2: (07:54)

Um, I guess you mean Tove I wrote where, uh, where I do have a role too do you mean that one? Yeah, I do mean that one and I didn't want to be disrespectful cause I know you've done lots of things. It's just that, that's the one that I went to see and I really, really, really enjoyed. And could you explain who Tove is because in Finland she's an icon she's huge. And she's very well known or was very well known throughout the world, but why was she so well known? I mean, who is she? She's the creator of 'The Moomin' characters, like cartoonist, artist, writer. She's mostly famous, uh, from her work with, um, women characters, but basically she did so much, she has a huge amount of, uh, adult books that she wrote and books for children, uh, pictures that she drew.

 

Speaker 2: (09:08)

Is it correct? Yeah, correct. Yeah, drew, um, in the past yes. Paintings and everything. So she was such a creative person and very, um, brave. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Now the 'Moomins' were big or well known throughout the parts of the world. I mean, this is not easy. Could you give an explanation, let's say to someone that doesn't know the 'Moomins', um, initially there were like small characters that she drew for herself to, to make her happier during the war. And, um, but they were like something that she carried, carried with her and uh, like signed, she always signed her paintings with this small, uh, character Tove that, and then there was this small troll. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then after, after the war, she published some books for children, um, about those small trolls. And basically it was, um, like place where she could escape from, from this tough world was filled with war and bombs and everything.

 

Speaker 2: (10:48)

Yeah. And, and even cause her father was an artist, but he didn't, he didn't appreciate these characters. Did he? He thought she was wasting her talent. So yeah. So, so I, I guess, uh, it was Tove's, uh, like, um, own, perspective too. She also thought that this is something like for children and it's not so important in her career. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, people read a lot into the different characters though, don't they, you know, somehow it it's very popular among adults as well. It's not just the children's thing. Yes. I adore those stories and I know many, many adult people who love them, almost sure. The show who's your favorite character Eeva. Perhaps the little Myy, but I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. Okay. You're you're an actress. And a writer and what I mean, this probably is a stupid question, but what do you, what do you prefer?

 

Speaker 2: (11:58)

Is there, have you got a preference over the two because obviously they're very different, different skills involved with acting and writing. Have you got a preference for the two, maybe acting still it is more like, um, I can, you can, um, connect with, with people and can move and use your body. It's more like, um, being alive. Yeah. Yes. More physical, more physical. Definitely. But of course writing is fun too, but it's not, so it's not so difficult. I would say it's, it's easier for me than acting and acting is therefore my favorite thing, because it's challenge because it goes back to what you said that you enjoy challenges. Okay. Always such a huge mystery. Would you say like that? You could say it like that. Yeah. How to, how to find this character in, in me, how to find this and that. And it's it's so it's intriguing.

 

Speaker 2: (13:24)

Do you, I mean, with the writing side, because I know you're, you're doing projects at the moment through, for work writing projects, do you have, which some writers have, which is a kind of need to write? I mean, does, do you have an idea when you think I've got to write that that's got to be done a caling, if you like, do you have a calling to write. So when you get an idea, you have to write, you have to write it or is it just for work? Like, so you're asked to write something and then you do it. How, how does it run with the, with the writing to the second part of the interview with Eeva in the next podcast, but now it is what you've all been waiting.

 

Speaker 3: (14:09)

[inaudible]

 

Speaker 2: (14:28)

Another question or I dunno, expression, or 'to have an edge'. Could you explain to me the meaning of that, this expression, this expression, as far as I know, as far as, you know, obviously I'm listening to sorts of conversations,

 

Speaker 1: (14:53)

Uh, either live conversations or on films and meet through the media, et cetera. I think this expression 'to have an edge' is having its time at the moment it's being used very often. Now it's one of those high frequency phrases, if you like. And it has, it may have more than two meanings, but I can think of two meanings straight away. Okay. Two completely separate meanings. The first meaning 'to have an edge' could be used as a synonym in order to have an advantage. If, for example, you could say, um, if there were two tennis players playing and there was sort of one tennis player was say in his forties and the other tennis player was in his twenties, you might think that the younger guy as the game gets, you know, goes along and it goes into four, four or five sets. You would think that the younger guy would have an advantage over the older man.

 

Speaker 1: (16:05)

So you could say, well, the longer the game goes on, the more likely the young guy 'will have an edge' over his opponent due to tiredness. So that's one, I mean, to have an advantage, but it means the same as to have an advantage. Okay. The other one, um, is a little bit more subtle, a bit different because if someone has an edge and it's, it's not an advantage, we're not talking about an advantage here. If, if someone said to me, Oh, um, Jessica's really nice. Um, she's, she's really got an edge now. I would, I wouldn't think Jessica has got an advantage. What I would think is that Jessica is not frightened to say something, uh, to get a react, to get a reaction. Like let's say, um, if she doesn't believe in something, even if people around her could be, you know, somehow I dunno, older, or it could be a situation where they're sort of, I don't know, high high-powered individuals.

 

Speaker 1: (17:15)

You'd still state your opinion. Even if it upsets, slightly upsets someone or someone had a very different opinion. So, or you might be ready to have a joke, a laugh when some people might turn around and think, Oh, that was a, that was a bit naughty, what she said, but you know, is to have an edge. Uh, me personally, I love people with an edge because it makes things, you know, interesting. If everyone just behaves themselves 100%, sometimes it's not that interesting, but if someone's got an edge, you might expect them to say something throughout the night that you're going to look back at what they said, and you're going to laugh or you'll kind of say, Oh, I can't believe he said that in front of whoever. So, so most of my friends, I would say I've got an edge. It's almost pre-requirements okay. So I know, try to explain that. Well, yeah, that's what it means. It's a bit risque. It's someone that's not frightened to take risks in order either to get, grab some humor out of a situation or say something that's quite contentious that not everyone's going to agree with or accept, so it could start a debate. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's that's the other way. And there might be other, other meanings for that expression, but they're the two that come to mind that's enough for now. Okay. That's fine.

 

Speaker 4: (18:48)

Another of the things I was really, uh, I laughed about that he's about 'gesticulation'. So, uh, because you know Italians, uh, they have a lot of Gestures, um, do the British actually British or English people gesticulate when they speak, for example,

 

Speaker 1: (19:10)

That's a good question. But do you, I mean, obviously you, you are Italian. Um, are you aware that out of, if you asked a hundred people from all over the planet, which culture is so, is known for gesticulation, I think most people would say Italians really are at the end of the spectrum. I think Italians gesticulate more than anyone else. I know which is very endearing. I think it's really nice of course, but in a way, I mean, you live in Finland as well, maybe Finns, are the least, or, or on the other side, they don't seem like they gesticulate very much. He liked very much, well, I would say again, we've got this spectrum. I would say Italian from one side, let's say Finns and probably lots of other cultures as well. On the other side. Yes, of course. I would say the Brits maybe somewhere in the middle because they do, especially if they become emotional, you know, they start to use their hands to express things. They start to become, they, they, you know, they just gesticulate more if they're emotional. Whereas, you know, people have said to me that you could listen to two men on a street corner gesticulating to each other and speaking passionately to each other. Some people would think, Oh, they must be arguing. Or there's something really, really important going on, but it might just be about the football on Saturday.

 

Speaker 1: (20:47)

So yeah. So, so I think, I think the Brits are somewhere in the middle. It does depend on an, on the individual, of course, but as a culture, I would say somewhere in the middle,

 

Speaker 4: (21:00)

But to do you know, some Italian gestures.

 

Speaker 1: (21:02)

Oh no, I don't. I think that, I don't think the Brit apart from rude gestures, you know, if someone, you know, in the car, you know, there's different ones for that.

 

Speaker 4: (21:13)

Yeah. The car, especially in the car,

 

Speaker 1: (21:16)

It's especially in the car, but what about others? Is there others in Italian that you can do? That just means something.

 

Speaker 4: (21:27)

Actually there are a lot, but it depends of which parts of Italy you're from, because I'm from the North of Italy. So we don't have the, for example, some gestures that in the South, perhaps people have, but of course there is, this one is a one of the most,

 

Speaker 1: (21:51)

Right. So you're going like that. I'd let me try to explain what you're doing. You're, you're kind of, you're putting your fingers together and your hand upside down. So your Palm of your hand,

 

Speaker 4: (22:03)

Uh, I think they call it to the purse, so like the fingers are like a purse,

 

Speaker 1: (22:09)

A purse right yeh. Yeah. Okay. Yes, because that's our lips as well. Same thing. Right? So your hand is pursed your fingers and your thumb are touching each other at the tips. Yeah. And so what does that, what does that mean?

 

Speaker 4: (22:27)

Uh, for me, what do you want?

 

Speaker 1: (22:32)

Oh, and also what you're doing. You, haven't got your hand still, it's moving from, towards your mouth and back again, like, ah, so it means,

 

Speaker 4: (22:44)

Yeah. Your mouth, no, no, absolutely not

 

Speaker 1: (22:50)

So it means, you know, what's up. What do you want? Why are you looking at me or something like that. Okay. All right. Interesting.

 

Speaker 4: (22:57)

It's simple. If you do this kind of movement, if you want to explain user, are you made or

 

Speaker 1: (23:04)

Yeah. That's, that's, that's another one. Exactly. So a Brit would do that as well. They would take the circular movements with their index finger towards the temple. The side of their head means that they're kind of, you know, are you crazy? Have you lost your mind?

 

Speaker 4: (23:23)

You try to describe, for example, that people, you know, when you are doing like that, see he's mad or she's mad.

 

Speaker 1: (23:33)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When you are saying this, I realise that a lot of these gestures do actually mean something. So this is, that's the same in Britain. Someone could do that. in Britain, for sure.

 

Speaker 4: (23:45)

Think, yeah.

 

Speaker 1: (23:47)

I don't know if, you know, you might not know the answer to this or if there is an answer to this, but do you know if there's any gestures that mean something different in different parts of Italy? In other words, if you did something in the Northern part of it, it could be but I'm not sure because, um, and I don't know, but the, I know for example, um, in the South they have this kind of, uh, uh, just, okay. We don't, we say 'tutting' that that's called a 'tut'. Uh, took, ah, yeah. It's like, um, yeah. It's like, it's almost, is it showing, um, is it so you don't don't approve of you say no, but we don't have in, in the North, I mean, in my family, because I don't know in the other families, but in the North we don't use it. Yes. We, that is something in England or Britain as well. If someone 'tuts' it, sign showing disapproval, I don't approve of what you're doing or saying. So it's kind of a little, can be a bit rude to just go like that, because it's basically saying, I don't agree with you or I don't like your behaving or something.

 

Speaker 5: (25:15)

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