This week, we're talking about NaaS. We've covered NaaS in various contexts on this show, but this episode focuses on fabric providers and where they're headed.

For that, we're so glad to have on our outspoken and knowledgeable friend Michael Wynston, Director of Network Security Architecture & Automation at Fiserv. Michael has now been on TeleGeography's podcast not once, not twice, but three times—and it's safe to say that he really knows his stuff.

What are fabric providers doing, and how do they fit into the context of the traditional WAN? Alongside your typical MPLS-Internet hybrid network? As a replacement for some of that WAN? Listen to our conversation to find out.