Are you a struggling real estate broker owner in 2025? Discover proven strategies to boost your business and thrive in today’s market.

Are you a broker owner feeling overwhelmed in the competitive landscape of 2025? This insightful video delves deeply into the challenges that struggling broker owners face today. From navigating market changes to implementing effective strategies, we explore practical solutions to help you thrive. Join us as we uncover the keys to turning your brokerage around and achieving success.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 474. And yes, that’s right. You have found the 86th most popular real estate podcast in the country. Congratulations. We’re so excited to have you today. So, before I go off on some rant, I would love to introduce you to the guy, the founder of The Myth, The Legend. He has founded numerous innovative digital programs, plans, podcasts, and businesses. I can go on and on. He has a myth in his mind. Where did you jump in? I would like to say hello to you. Thanks for that, Robert. Please feel free just to sing if you’re paying attention.

God, Thanks, Robert. I’m the joint founder of Mel Wright. We’re an easy-to-use CRM with a focus on lead generation. We offer a user-friendly CRM and a range of other tools at a competitive price point of slightly under $50 per month. If you pay month to month, you want to find more. Go over to Mail-Right.com, and we would love you to come on board. Back over, Hello to you, Rob.

Speaking of which, today’s show is going to talk, we’re going to be talking about broker owners who might be struggling in 2025 and some ideas to make that struggle a little easier. One of those ideas is to scrutinize your budgets and start investing a little more time in areas where you might have let money do the talking for you. Then a circumstance might be using a new tool like John’s that’s inexpensive, and where you can get some handholding. And get better results than someplace that you’ve been spending two, three, or four times as much. So this is an option. Now, it’s always unpleasant learning new things. Always. John’s tools, my tools, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It just doesn’t matter. I understand it isn’t easy. But right now in this season that we’re in, if ever there’s going to be a time that you’re going to take on new stuff with the intent of trying to embrace lower costs, this is the time. So, without any further ado, are you overwhelmed in this market we’re in? A lot of people that we’re talking to, I don’t know about John, but I am indeed talking to a lot of overwhelmed people.

And the circumstances, John, that we’re talking about, I’m watching people do some shocking things, break contracts with companies that they’ve made a lot of money off of for a long time. I’m taking on some clients. I’m taking on some clients because I know this is going to be shocking to you. News flash, everyone, I’m far more expensive than John is in terms of the marketing services my company provides. However, there are many people out there who are more expensive than I am. A lot of the people that I’m talking to, John, they’re breaking big contracts with people that have PPC budgets and looking for more guerrilla ways to market themselves. I’m taking on a lot of really cool, interesting new agreements that I’ve never taken on. I’m working on a Wix site, specifically a luxury gift site, for the first time. A lot of really… I know—a lot of really unusual Wix. And everybody, I’m going to say that John did something interesting, but you’re going to have to watch the video to see it. So, go to the YouTube channel. What are you going to say, John?

Did you have to swear Wix?

Oh, my John, I’m going to say that… I’m going to toss this over to you, but you said that you thought this would be an interesting subject and that I’d have some advice. I surely do. I surely do. But why did you choose this topic for today?

I watched a couple of videos on other people’s YouTube channels, and one of them addressed this subject. It would be an interesting subject to talk about because obviously, the market is in a tough spot at the present moment. It’s been like this for over a year. None of us knows where it’s going. It’s very regionalized. There are certain areas where I’ve observed a significant decline in activity, but in other places, prices are still increasing. Can’t believe there’s more of them. It’s a very diverse landscape. But a lot of independent brokers, brokers that aren’t part of major regional and national franchises, feel they’re under attack in multiple ways that are affecting their bottom line. The amount of business out there has declined quite a lot, but it’s even more than that. It’s as if they’re being attacked from multiple vectors, from various points. I’ve spoken to a few, as most of our clientele are independent agents, and many of them are part of a brokerage or smaller boutique brokerages we assist. They feel attacked. Similarly, this is the intro, but number two is competing with eXp or Reel in terms of keeping and attracting top talent.

From the couple of videos I watched and a few conversations I’ve had, this is one of the issues that many independent, smaller boutique brokerages have been facing. I’d like your thoughts on how a brokerage, a boutique, or a smaller brokerage can retain their top producers who are attracted to eXp and the real estate industry. I’ve got strong opinions on these companies. However, I’d like to offer some advice and then share my views.

John, listen, building sales teams, keeping people employed, and retaining staff have been one of my top challenges throughout my entire career, spanning all four years. Keeping large call centers full of people on the phones is way more difficult than people realize it’s a shit job that very few people want to do. You have to get creative about keeping people in seats. And so you’ve got the standard ways that all of you’ve heard of, but I’m going to go through a couple of them: prizes, vacations, dinner with the boss, things like that. Providing personal attention to your team members promptly will foster better personal relationships. Don’t just do Zoom meetings. Take people out to lunch, and walk your dogs with your team members. Create personal relationships in a world that is drifting away from them. These are all standard tactics when you talk about management and leadership. And obviously, the Pareto principle applies. You start with your top 20% of your producers and work your way down. You just go down and create relationships. Now, that’s the easy stuff, and all of you should already be doing that. If you’re not, come on, man, do the basics.

Spend more time with people. Be a good leader. But the other bit of it is, and this is not so common, is you have to get out in front of the messaging that everybody is receiving in the world today, John, whether you want to or not. It’s a crap proposition. I am reluctantly becoming really, really versed in AI in its current state. I’m about ready. I’ve got beta tests into numerous high flotuten AI things, and I’m going to sign up for Gemini, and I can go on and on. But why am I doing it? Do I think it’s any place different than anything you and I have talked about? Not really. It’s still not going to be my business model. But I’ll tell you what has to happen. Everybody, the noise has gotten so large everywhere that you must give a nod to it and participate so that people think that they’re not being left behind by staying with you. That’s it. That’s the whole point. You have to make other people believe that you know what’s going on so that they don’t think or get attracted to something shiny somewhere else that says, We’re using AI in all of our business.

It’s going to change your life. It’s not, but your people won’t listen to you. So get involved in some AI stuff. Look at AI, some AI agents. Pay attention to what’s going on. Look at Phonely. That’s been the big one for real estate agents that I’ve been hearing about a lot lately. Look at Phonely. That’ll keep people in tune with your business. So what were you going to say, John? You said you had something to add here.

If you’re a smaller independent brokerage, and I think you should have somebody in the organization that’s a digital manager, and you should be generating leads to your agents. But your agents are subcontractors, and you I wouldn’t be upset that they do their own activities. They have their own website, and they’re doing their own marketing. But I do think as part of the brokerage, let’s say you got 10 to 20 agents, and let’s say five of them are top performers, you should have a digital platform yourself that’s generating decent leads. Needs, and they should be distributed amongst the company. I think this was also ticked off by somebody that I respect in the industry, and it’s been on the show one or two times. A while ago, So that’s Jimmy Burgess. He’s publicly said he’s become part of the real team, and he’s marketing for them and really pushing. I don’t want to fall out with Jimmy because I do respect him. I was saddened to hear of that decision. But I’ve explained this before, haven’t I, Robert? I’m English. I consider eXp and real to be glorified MLMs, which is a polite way of saying that they’re a pyramid.

They’re involved in my opinion, in a pyramid scheme, which is totally illegal in the UK, in England. If you are found guilty of being in a pyramid scheme or MLM, you go to prison in the UK. It’s straight to jail, monopoly. You go straight to jail. There’s no messing around, Robert. I don’t want anything to do with them. If I was a real estate agent, I think their focus is not about real estate. Their focus is about getting other agents to be part of the MLM.

I definitely disagree with you. I think Jimmy is one of the sharpest guys that you and I have ever had on the show inside the real estate space. I think that he understands, and the rules, what eXp is doing and real are doing are different. I think that eXp does come dangerously close to being an MLM, and I don’t think that real does. But that’s not a conversation for another… That’s a conversation for another day. If you’re listening to this show and you’re a broker owner and you’re losing people to real in guys like Jimmy, my answer to you is, of course you are, I would probably be going over to real. And the reason is so, so, so simple. Jimmy and Ricky Caruth and Kyle Handy, if you go over, they have done all the hard work that you have not done in order to learn digital marketing, and they will teach you how to successfully digital market inside your business. And that’s as simple as it gets. Jimmy is great at it. And Jimmy carries the added weight that he is really good at traditional marketing as well, and he’s not a bad salesperson.

I mean, the guy is a triple threat. I would be in terror knowing that he might be in charge of recruiting for real because he’s very good. He’s very talented. He built up a massive audience out of nothing on Inman. He did a great job at it, and he’s probably just going to a place where he can have a bigger impact, recruit more people, and make a little more money in the process.

That’s I’m not saying you’re right or wrong. I’m just explaining because of my background, my cultural background. Anything, anything to do with… But it doesn’t bother my American friends. I’ve known many people, it doesn’t bother them being part or looking at MLM. I want nothing to do with it. Which is fair.

And honestly, since the purpose of this show, which we’re going to cover a little bit more when we get back. The purpose of the show is not to scare you guys white. It’s to give you some tools and tactics to compete. So we’re going to give you a moment to chew on that. We’re going to come back and we are going to give you some tactics to compete. But I am afraid, I’m just going to be honest with everybody, this is more like it is now time to take the big ugly vitamin that you don’t like to take. That’s what you’re going to get. I usually try to really throw some sizzle out there. Today, it’s all about the… We used to have a word for it. There used to be this terrible syrup that all parents made you drink. It was God awful. I can’t remember it anymore. It’s got a weird name. You know what I’m talking That’s what we’re talking about, though. All right, anyway, when we come back- Am I the Syrup? No, the information is the Syrup in this case. Normally, yes, you are, but not this time. All right, everybody, we’re going to come back.

When we come back, wherever you’re at, this message that I used to send out, it is because of all of you that you have made the show what it is. Today’s show has been sponsored by InboundREM and Mail-Right. Check them out. Inboundrem. Com is a leader in SEO services. Mail-right is an incredibly affordable all-in-one system. Go to those websites and check them out. When we come back from break, after you’ve liked the show because we know we’re super fantastic, then we’re going to cover some more plans for some small broker owners to succeed in their businesses. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 474. We’re talking today about being a broker and owner in today’s world, competing against companies very specifically like eXp and Real. Exp and Real are taking over the digital space Because what’s happened is those models are very conducive to people like me who really know how to market because you can build large teams virtually and those teams can go out and sell real estate on their own. So it takes a few things into account. It assumes that you can already sell real estate.

It assumes that you might be weak in the digital world. And if those things are true, then real in the exp and you have somebody that’s seeking slightly higher compensation, better like an actual investment inside the company, and better return on their time in terms of learning and digital information, that’s when you might lose them to real or eXp. As I’m sure you guys can realize, based on the list I just gave you, that’s a real threat. Better compensation, better learning, more flexibility, and coaches. That’s what those models provide. It’s really dangerous to a traditional small broker owner. Real hard to compete with. How do I suggest that broker owners compete, John? Well, there’s three or four different ways. The biggest, easiest way, always, John, always, always. The way that small broker and owners can compete and trounce these systems, you know what these systems don’t do? They require you to learn stuff and do stuff on your own. Here’s where you can keep somebody locked in. Always be providing leads, good, bad, or different. Always be handing leads off to your people. All right? Always. If you have to settle for low-quality leads that they may have to work a little harder on, fine.

Yet used to being a hard ass about how your people work your leads, because let me tell you, as difficult as it is to conceive, having some lead to call, even a low-quality one, is better in like 80% of salespeople’s minds than having zero leads. They will take bad. They will argue with you and debate with you and tell you to waste of their time. I’ve heard it my entire career. They will also not leave because to them, the only thing that’s worse than having a bad lead is having no leads and having the cold call. So whatever you’re all doing, Facebook marketing, websites, capture something, give them something. Give them a plan. People want structure. They want a process and they want a system. That’s the next thing. The days in which you can just say, Oh, come work for me. I’m going to give you a desk and a phone, and I’m going to take a quarter to 1% of your commission for that. Those days are gone, ladies and gentlemen. Most people work out of their home. It’s not a good offer anymore as a broker. You can’t do it. You can give somebody a process where they get texted these bad leads, like through Five Street or any number of the good lead routing systems that are out there.

Just make it seamless Just send them something. Every day when they open up their email, give them a couple of bad leads. It’s so much better and you’ll keep your sales force. Not always, but some of the time. You’ll keep your sales force. So For those listening to this show, here’s your bad medicine, your bad juju. You’re going to have to get your bone up on your processes like you really are. You got to have processes in place. And if all of you are out there going, Well, that’s okay, Robert. I don’t need a process. I’m paying all my money to Zillow, and they send leads straight to my salespeople, and they sign us up for follow-up boss. Let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen, the reason that Zillow is owning the process and just spent $500 million on follow-up boss is because they desperately want you to put your salespeople into their tools so that they own the entire lead generation process, including the actual nurturing and working of the leads. Because once they own your people’s understanding of process, they own your business. Full stop. They will take whatever percentage they want, and they are already doing that.

So if all of you are really determined to be in business with a marketing partner that is not consistent, then by all means, go with Zillow.

Can we quickly go get your feet, get your insight about what’s working with your own smaller brokerages that you work with? What’s the mixture that’s still getting some results? I know it’s very dependent on every local market. If the local market is totally overpriced and people, investors or the local population, can’t afford to buy the property and the investors, the outside, out-of-state investors have dried up, it is what it is. What we’re seeing in Florida and some of the cities in Texas seems to be following it. But what is the mixture of giving these leads? Is it the website and a mix of Google local adverts? What is the balance you’re finding that gets the best return?

Well, you’re right. It does depend on area. We’ve had to spend a lot more time communicating with individual clients to figure out what the secret sauce is in their specific area. But I focus on three areas, and there’s definitely an area that shines above all others right now, which is local, which is why I’m focused all my energy and time on selling local-based services. I’ve dropped my website pricing by 75 %, John, taken a massive cut. But the reason I took a massive cut was because what I’m seeing working consistently across most markets, let’s call it 85 % of them, is still ranking in Google profiles. Not only are they doing well, many of those markets are seeing increases. The way that people are, lead generation is changing. Where people are responding is changing. And so my belief is that some of the portals are losing traction, and the person that’s picking it up is Google Local Service Profiles, and I strongly believe that. And so both paid LSA ads, the hyper local, I’m seeing How about this? I think I’m pretty sure that of every 10 clients I sign up for that service, eight see positive ROI.

I mean, it’s a staggeringly large number, considering the market that we’re in, taking that into account. But what else am I seeing work? Video still works. A combination of video with local is my favorite go to, like pop one video on, edit the video, do stuff like that, because then we’re seeing the ability for somebody to get some traction on YouTube, and now we’re also talking about local. So we’re seeing a lot of traction from inbound and local. We’re seeing some benefit. There are people that I do business with that still manage larger marketing contracts. And what What I’m seeing more and more of, John, is the people that do video and stuff, they’re sending that money to more and more to video editing and SEO teams like us. I’m getting a lot more of that business. Every time I do an SEO contract these days, it includes a lot of video editing and a lot of video optimization stuff inside of it. The only reason for that, John, the only reason that makes any sense is that all those people are seeing returns, calls, inquiries, comments, There’s stuff coming in from either existing or new clients.

Last but not least, we’re seeing a shift, a huge, massive shift in that a lot of the good business that’s out there to be had is more listings than buyers, which is a weird place for me to be in because for fucking years now, it’s been nothing but let’s get in front of buyers, let’s get in front of buyers, let’s get in front of buyers. Now, I understand, and everything you said was true, John, but I got to tell you, I really feel like you have a couple of where the hot air is still escaping, and LA is one of them. But 90% of the people I’m talking to, not a smaller number, 90% are dealing with really wildly depressed markets. There’s only one consistent exception in every marketplace. If you’re lucky to have it, everybody grab a notepad. There’s two big strategies that are getting tossed around, John, amongst my and chat groups and stuff like that. One, which I believe in, is new development. Brett and other clients I have are literally raking it in, making record profits because they immediately pivoted and adapted. This is where long term clients that you’ve consulted with for years comes into play.

I’m sure you understand it and could visualize it. It’s like, I have a guy who has a well ranking site. We drifted away from buyer stuff and started talking about new developments. And now his website is three times more traffic, tons of calls, everything that we want. And we changed one major thing. We focused on builders, and we focused on builders that were building in this area. And all of a sudden, even though many of the developments we’re talking about are just like 20, 30 homes, it doesn’t matter. He’s getting all the traffic and all the calls. So if he wants to send them somewhere else or try to sell them into something else, it’s his to do. That’s one area. Now, the other area, which I’m also seeing a lot of, I got to hate it, but it’s so popular, is I’m watching agents cut their commission. There’s this program that’s out there that all of you have probably heard of that has some good case studies from advertising that they’re going to cut the buyer side commission, and they are doing well with it. Going with 2% is what I’ve seen a lot of.

And I don’t know, John. Okay, this is my multi-level marketing moment. I’ve always been a high-end commission-only salesperson. And I got to tell you, you always lose when you start cutting your commission. Always. That’s my experience. That’s my whole career’s worth of experience. The second you start making exceptions to your commission is the second that not only do you start losing money, but you have to start cutting service. Full stop. You’re a business person Just like everybody else. If you take away your money, you lose your validation for some of the things you might be doing as a salesperson to provide service to a client. Those are my thoughts.

Yeah, I think they’re very insightful. I agreed with all of them. I think our diversions in the first half of the show around real, and I think there’s more alignment when it to eXp between you and me. I’ve explained it. It’s me. It’s my cultural background. I was in England until I was 42. For television program after television program, radio program, stridently anti-MLM schemes. In In the end, it became the law in England, and it become a crinimal. It’s not civil law, it’s a crinimal law that if they can prove that you’re engaging in these business models, you go to prison, and I can’t get over that. But it doesn’t bother because it’s a totally different culture, a totally different legal situation, isn’t it, Robert?

It is indeed. So ladies and gentlemen, I’m going to lay some wisdom on all of you that says building a successful team and providing website training or providing valuable training. So I’m going to give you guys all the tips that I used to use to build teams. I have built so many top performing teams. I don’t even have words for it. Adt, MCI, AT&T, that’s been my skill the entire time, and here’s how I Get them young, get them dumb, train them in classes, train them in masses, kick them in the asses. I’ve used that analogy for my whole career, and it has never failed. You get people before they know anything, and then you teach them something. Have something to teach them. Have a process, a training program, believe in it. If you don’t know how you are successful, in my humble opinion, you probably shouldn’t be a business owner or leader. You should really retool and get to a place where you can understand how you’ve done what you’ve done. For those of you, your referral sales people who’ve just been at it for 20 years, focus on how you build relationships and then turn that into a process.

Do you call everybody? Are you a Southern Bell and never really thought about it? I’m sorry, but you guys have to think about what you do and how you do it. I’m not saying most of you, if you’re successful, you have a process, just like John does. You’re overly humble, in my opinion, John. You’ve gotten many different businesses up and off the ground. Maybe your main skill has been perseverance. I don’t know. But you do have a process. How do you persevere? I get up early in the morning. I work hard all day long. I just plug away. I read other people. That’s a process. If you guys have a process because you don’t know something, you wake up, you read a blog, that somebody that theoretically knows what they’re doing. Well, guys, get up, do that, find a couple of people that know what they’re doing, then turn that into a process for your young, dumb, but excitable trainees, and then give them those places because people never forget the ones that taught them how to fish. If you actually mentor people, you want to know it builds more loyalty than anything else, John, that I’ve ever found more than money.

Teach people a skill for the first time in their lives. Make them independent. Please provide them with the tools to add value in the marketplace. And as long as you don’t treat them like complete and utter garbage, they tend to be loyal. By waste, I mean paying them 30% less than anybody else will pay them. Once somebody is learning something from you, they tend to stay loyal to you. It’s crazy how opening the gateways of somebody’s mind changes the paradigm of the relationship between them and you. That’s why getting them young is so relevant. That’s why having a process in place, such as a training program, is essential. Suppose you need to buy somebody else’s and put your name on it, great. But my only criterion for that is to make sure that you’ve made it yours. Make sure you understand it, that you went through it, that you’ve absorbed it, that you’ve used it, and that you know it. And so when you communicate it, the belief will come through in your voice. And now, when you’re teaching somebody else something, they buy it. That’s my closing to building a successful team. And guys, if you don’t know how to find them young, go to any college.

And failing that, go to high school. Go to any place that has unemployed people. Go to your EDD office. Go to… And physically go there. You want to impress people. Show up as an employer. Go to job fairs. They still work. They’ve never failed. They never will fail. Why? Because students are already on campus, they’re not looking online. That’s one of the very few things that’s never going to change. They’re going to school, they see a job fair in progress, so they drop by to boost their chances. They’re already there. They have to be there until the day changes when school is no longer taught on a campus. This is going to be successful. We use it in the Philippines, by the way. The University of Cebu is my favorite partner there.

That’s my advice, John.

It’s fantastic. Would you like us to wrap it up now?

We shall. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, who should not be listening to this show because I curse like a sailor, we appreciate your earbuds today. We do. You have been a part of episode number 474 of the 86th top-rated podcast in the country for real estate agents. Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back. We appreciate it. If you’d like to learn more about SEO or how to implement specific marketing strategies, you can visit inboundrem for more information. Com. We also provide services, websites, and many, many other things that will change your real estate re-generation game if you’re willing to learn a thing or two. Without any further ado, let me turn it over to my cohort, who also has an incredible, excellent, it’s the very best agency in He’s in the country doing a low cost, price it as you want, pretty much, service, and you can still get him on the phone. John, how would you like people to reach out to you if they want to? You can go to the Mail-Right.com website.

Please have a look at the features that we are offering. I think you’ll be blown away. We also have a well-designed library of WordPress themes, which enables you to create a professional-looking website quickly. That can also be IDX-enabled and customized. We also offer that service, but it’s a nice package. Back over to you, Robert.

Beautiful. Once again, my name is Robert Newman. I’m the founder of inboundrem.com, a lifelong marketer, and one of the country’s top real estate SEO experts. I’m teaching myself to be one of the country’s best real estate AI guys. If the subjects interest you, if they can help your business grow, you know where to find me. All right, everybody, thank you so much. John, take us offline.