Discover the best AI tools for real estate agents in 2026. Automate lead generation and client management to boost sales by 40%.

Welcome back to episode 494 of the MailRight podcast. And ladies and gentlemen, it is sad to say that there will be no 495. This is officially and unequivocally our last show together. I will be hosting another show, which I will be presenting myself, likely within the next couple of weeks. It will be called the Real Estate Revolution, and it will focus on the rapidly changing aspects of the real estate industry, particularly in terms of marketing and technology. So, John, as your final swan song, what do you want to say to our audience?

Well, it’s been a good ride. Thanks, Robert. I think we’ve covered some good stuff. I think we’ve given some good advice, and I think we’ve covered, like I say, some great stuff.

So do I. We have a banger, two bangers. So our originally scheduled show for the day was AI tools, and in his normal, organized way, John had gone out, diligently researched a lot of really cool tools. However, I received a call from a client, a dear friend and contact, who asked me a simple question. They said, ‘Hey, did you know that Follow-up Boss or Zillow has updated its terms of service?’ I said I saw something come through one of my feeds, something like on Inmin or something similar, that said that. He’s like, Did you look at it? I went, No, I didn’t look at it. These companies update their TOCs all the time. And he’s like, You should. And what specifically he was calling out was the fact that in the latest round of terms and condition updates, Follow Up Ops updated specifically its terms as it relates to… Or sorry, Zillow updated its terms as it relates specifically to Follow Up Ops. And the relationship that they updated was genuinely detrimental to real estate agents. Just so bad that I had to ask John if he’d be willing to let us preempt the show.

And what’s more, remember, they did it all less than… It’s like four or five days ago. The changes go into effect on the 15th. The total amount of notice that they gave for this change, ladies and gentlemen, is under two weeks. And here’s the change. The change is that Zillow is doing… Hold on a second here. Let me go up here because I’m going to read it exactly as it is. A key area of change is the handling of data for mutual customers, contracts in your follow-up database, who also have a Zillow account. Now, that’s how it reads. Okay, Ladies and gentlemen, this data will be processed in accordance with Zillow’s privacy notice, which generally permits the use of data for Zillow’s advertising, marketing, personalization, and analytics purposes, as well as the combination of data across Zillow and Zillow-owned brands. Deeper integration for Zillow Pro, that’s the next clause. The updates enable a much deeper integration between Follow Up Boss and Zillow’s new suite of products, Zillow Pro, which is designed to enhance the agent workflow and provide real-time consumer insights. This integration allows agents to invite any follow-up boss contact to form a my agent relationship on Zillow. Agents can gain real-time insights into the behavior of their connected clients as they search on Zillow.

The framework supports Zillow’s AI technology, like smart messages and smart summaries, using the integrated data. Now, here’s a handful of agents who have already lost their minds, as they should have. So this is what Zillow’s response to immediate and widespread concern was. Zillow has stated that agent-only contacts are used solely to provide the CRM services. Now, that’s their response. I want to be really clear with you, ladies and gentlemen, and John, as well as anyone who cares. Agent-only contacts mean they don’t have a Zillow profile. Guess what the number is, everyone. For people who will have a Zillow profile that’s part of your database, the average is across the country, and it’s 80%. What Zillow has said is that they’re going to take 80% of your database, or roughly that amount, just in case anyone in legal listens to this. I’m not saying that is the definitive number; that’s just an average, and it’s based on the last data that I saw, which is not a guarantee of absolute proof. I’m just going to say that that number is somewhere in there. It’s a window about that big. It’s a significant percentage of any database that’s being held in a real estate agent’s account is now going to be used on Zillow Pro, and they’ve already said in their first original statement in the update of TOC that they are going to use customer data to make the experience better on Zillow.

That’s how that reads. They’re going to take your data and use it against your competitors. Other agents that have memberships or advertising accounts with Zillow now most likely get access to 80 % of your database, even though they said, Oh, you don’t need to worry if it’s just a contact of yours and they don’t have a Zillow profile. But at the same time, they’re also encouraging not only you, but the consumer to create a Zillow profile. It is very fancy legal footwork to say, We’re finally doing the data grab that guys like me and John have been talking about ever since Zillow bought a follow-up boss. So now that I’ve shared what I feel is like a ticking bomb, John, what do you think?

Well, they’re always going to do it, weren’t they?

Yeah, but they have now. The grenade, the pin has been pulled.

Well, I’m I’m surprised. Time flies. How long was it since they bought it?

I want to say two years.

Yeah, I think you’re right, but I’m not sure. If that’s That’s correct. I’m surprised it’s taking them so long, to be truthful about it. I was thinking that they were going to do this a lot earlier.

Almost two years to the day. November first, 2023.

Yeah, it’s been… Blahmy, time goes quick, doesn’t it? Yeah, I’m surprised it’s taken them that long. It was always that I never… It’s just my personal opinion, so I never believe received their statements anyway. It’s a bit of a shame because it’s a great CRM, isn’t it? Follow Up Boss.

It is. And while I’m not… There isn’t any amount of me that wants to say… It’s like there’s a lot of sad facts that when you deliver them, people expect you to dance on the grave of your fallen enemies and things like that. And I’m not that guy. I’ve been saying, and you’ve been saying, and I’ve said it on my own channels independently, that the acquisition for the amount of money that they paid because they wildly overspent for what Follow Up Boss was. They spent a half billion dollars on it, which is the price tag that was needed to acquire platforms from, I think, some founders that hadn’t intended to originally sell it. They overpaid for this acquisition, and there was only one reason that made any sense, which was some use with the information that they were going to get. Now, even I didn’t expect it. It would be this egregious. I didn’t think they’d just simply say, Hey, we’re going to take the customer data that you have in there.

You were surprised.

I’m surprised by the egregious nature of it. Yeah, I’m not surprised that they’re using it. I’m just surprised by, We’re just going to take your data and use it with your competitors. I’m surprised that they just decided to go full bore, like right in your face. Like, Okay, this is what we’re doing. Sorry, not really your data anymore, but we’re going to give you this one line that’s going to make it seem like it might be your data. And it’s such a legal dance. It’s fancy footwork. If you know the statistics by how many people have Zillow profiles, this is not good at all.

Well, I got to say, I’m not saying disparaging. I’m not surprised at all to be doing full. I’m just surprised it took them two years to do it, to be I’m not sure for, but about them overpaying, well, it’s not their money, is it? It’s their shareholders’ money. I’d imagine they looked at the figures, the bean count as their accountants, who I would imagine, did they get the founders of Follow Up Boss? Was it cash or was it cash and shares?

Let’s see here.

I don’t know about that. I presume it was cash and shares. Then normally, you got to be invested for two years. Then you don’t get all the money up front. You got to work for them for two years. We’re coming up to the two-year mark. I’m only surmising this, folks. I don’t know, but normally when you’re selling your SaaS to a large competitor or a corporation, they want you to work for them. It’s normally two years before you get your full options and you can cash out. We’re coming up to the two years. I think probably the founders of Follow Up Boss are departing. With their departure, they’re taking the opportunity to do what they always plan to do. But I’m only surmising this, Robert.

Ai and Google, a couple of articles. They paid cash, Which doesn’t surprise me. The whole deal, the amount of money, the structure of the deal definitely suggests that follow-up boss was in the driver’s seat. I would imagine that they were from what I’d seen and what I’d heard, because if they didn’t want to sell and you’re getting approached, I would do the same exact thing, John. If you wanted to buy me out, buy inbound RIM out. I mean, based on book value, the company is worth whatever X amount of dollars, maybe a million, I wouldn’t sell it for less than 5 or 10. Is it worth 5 or 10? Only if you If you want me to get out of this segment, then it’s worth 5 or 10. If I seem to be harming your business or you really want access to all my data that I’ve collected, then absolutely, you buy me out for 5 or 10. But other than that, you don’t. These numbers and the deal structure, because you’re 100% correct. Usually, there’s going to be shares and some type of tie-in. All that they have here is there was a potential for $100 million bonus in cash based on performance.

That’s what they But it’s cash, all cash, the entire deal cash, no shares.

Maybe they didn’t have to do the investor term. Maybe it was cash and they took the money in. I would imagine they had to stay on for some period of time.

I think that’s the performance bit. You’re probably not wrong. There’s And it’s probably a choice. I doubt, again, from what I’ve seen, the founders, they probably said, Now, if you want to lock us in on the contract, we’re probably not going to sign. So Zillow said, Well, how about we give you $100 million if you hit these performance metrics? How about $100 million?

A hundred million? That is a lot of money. That’s a lot of money. I wonder what their tax bill. Well, they probably had it, some special set up.

Zero. Probably went straight into a family officer or-Well, I don’t know what the…

Because it’s an Australian-based company, isn’t it? What about, boss? I don’t know what the taxation system is in Australia.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, I’m going to say these following things. If you care about your data, if you care about privacy, if you care about somebody competing for you, Zillow is going to grab that data coming on the 15th. That is approximately nine days from now. If you care about any of this, you’re going to want to look someplace else fast. Hubspot, Realty Juggler. There aren’t a lot of really high-quality options. Do not lock yourself into a long-term contract with an expensive CRM like Sink or Boomtown or KVCore or CRM Interactive or any of the other people that are still making you sign 12-year contracts or 12-month contracts for CRM because the way the industry is changing, if it was me, the advice I’m giving you is the advice I take for myself. Too much is happening, too fast. I’d want my options to be open without being, number one, obligated to $6,000 for a CRM, at the higher end, KVCore and companies like that. Number two, I would not want to be pushed into a corner by what is an egregiously short time frame for this aggressive data capture tactic. What do you say, John?

You seem like you had something to say.

Well, I’m sure the people that run you up are concerned about it, but I would say about 90 %, they don’t even know what’s going on. They wouldn’t even register with them because I don’t know, though, what it should be concerned, shouldn’t it?

Yeah, they should be very concerned. The way that I read that agreement is even if they don’t intend to do it in this moment, Zillow has officially updated their terms to say that they can use your data to enrich data in their Zillow Pro advertising campaign program, which means that effectively anybody that’s paying them gets access to your data. That may not be you. Probably isn’t you, actually. That means that they’re going to take what you’ve worked so hard to get and profit off it.

It’s the same thing as Amazon, isn’t it? Half the sellers on Amazon are independent retailers, and they sell their products on Amazon, but Amazon competes with them directly, uses the data and actively encourages other competitors to compete with you on the Amazon platform, don’t they?

They do indeed. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to wrap up this subject. Thank you, John, for humoring me and allowing me to get it on to the last episode of our show. When we come back, we’re going to go to break. And when we come back, what we’re going to talk about is we’re going to discuss on our break which of the… We originally had eight tools or seven tools. We’ll narrow it down to three, and we’ll have the best AI lead tools for real estate agent or the best three AI lead tools for agents in 2026. That’ll be our final swan tongue for our collaboration that is otherwise known as the MailRight Show. Ladies and gentlemen, stay tuned. We’re excited to bring you this one last bit of valuable information. We’ll be right back. Do you want to look at the tools?

Yeah, I got them in front.

Yeah, sure. No, Which three? I didn’t research any of these. I don’t know.

Let’s go with Koala AI, Neuroriter, and let’s go with Ryan Humanizer.

The last three on the list. That makes it easy. Or the last right in the middle list. I got it. Koala, Neurowriter, and Ryan Humanizer. Correct? Yeah.

Okay.

All right. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are here Last Mail Right Show, 494 episodes in, and we are not going to make 495, but we appreciate all of those that might have been following the show this entire time. There’s thousands of you who do. We are still the number 90 show, but No more, obviously, because there will be no more show, but we’ll probably maintain that ranking for a little while as all of you catch up on all the amazing episodes that we’ve done together. If any of you are interested in tuning into something new, you’re going to go over to Inbound R-E-M in a couple of weeks from now, somewhere towards Thanksgiving. I will be announcing my next project, which will be a podcast, and it will be the Real Estate Revolution, is what it’s going to be called. I’ll be talking about the segue between old and new, how we used to do business in real estate and how technology is changing it and what we’re doing in the future. I’m still lining up guests and figuring out the rest of the show’s aim, but that’s its primary mission.

We are going to talk about three tools today. 3 AI tools is the closing I made a mistake.

I like to talk to Ford, the other one. It’s the number three. That’s Margie, Margie. Because Margie and Caralo are similar.

Okay, got you. We’re going to talk about three tools today. It’s going to be Majai, is how I’m reading it, Neuroriter, and Ryan Humanizer. These are three AI tools that are designed to help you do leads. As normal, John has actually done a lot of the research, and I have not. I know none of these tools and very little about them. John, if you could go ahead and start with what you just said was top on your list, number three, Majai, and let everybody, including me, know what this tool was.

Yeah, I actually interviewed the founder of this company this morning. He’s a personal friend, and it’s a great tool. Basically, you got all the AI models like ChatGPT, got Claude. There’s about three or four of them. Well, you buy this product and it gives you access to all those AI language models in one interface. At one price. Darren’s really built a fantastic business, and he’s a great guy. We had a great interview this morning on my other show, the WP Tonic Show. It’s $20 for Solo, and team is $40. You get very generous quotas with it. I use it, and it’s really a great product.

What does it do? John, you use it, what does it do for you?

Well, if you want to write content, all the type of things that you would do in ChatGPT, it offers you ChatGPT, but it offers you all the other leads in language models in one interface. So Claude is better at some things and ChatGPT is better. And it offers about five or six of these interfaces or these large language models in one interface. So it saved you a ton of money and effort because it’s all in one interface.

Beautiful. All right, so here’s how I heard that this particular tool in five seconds of looking at on the website, actually, John’s list seems to be less than what they’re showing in their demo. So maybe either John’s correct and the demo is not or the demo has been updated and it’s got more like 12 models, all sorts of complexity, All of them, really. If you’re looking to save a little money and experiment with what tool does what the best, this sounds like an amazing option to me. So thanks for bringing it to everyone’s attention, John. I think it’s fantastic. How about Neuron Ryder?

Yeah, can Can I have a quick chat with Koala? Oh, Koala.

Sorry, I messed it up.

No, I wanted to cover four because it would be quite quick. Okay. Koala. It’s similar to the other one, but it’s the one I use the most because I bought, I wouldn’t say I bought a lifetime deal, but I bought a lot of credits. It should last me another year. In my opinion, it’s one of the best AI writing tools. It’s better than Jasper or Copy AI. It’s the one I use. It comes with a really nice interface, and it comes with some other options. One option, you can write out a brand voice, which I use. I developed a brand voice for the articles I produce, and you can paste the brand voice into and it will adapt the article to your brand voice, and it does quite a good job. It’s got some other features like imaging. It can convert videos into a text file. It’s got a number of things to it. I really like it. I use it almost every day. It starts at 9: 00, the professional’s 49, the boost is 99. I bought a special deal and I put like, six, seven hundred dollars into it, which I normally don’t do.

I normally go to month to month with these type of products because it’s changing so quickly. I think Marjo is probably better if you’re starting out because it’s $20 to $40 a month, and it gives you eight tools. So yeah, they’re both in the writing area, but you can use them to generate imaging, everything that a modern language model can do. But koala is more of a writing, a professional writing tool.

Got you. Well, thanks for sharing that with us. There’s certainly some cool sounding things inside that tool. So now, if I remember correctly, I get farther from remembering our initial private conversation every single second that we’re talking, Neuron Writers next up. Am I correct?

Yeah. This is cool. I’ve been using it for the past couple of years. It’s a SEO professional tool. You put in the title of the article you’re going to write, and it will find 10 of the leading websites that are ranking for that particular title. It will then give you a list of all the keywords that should be in the article, and you can copy those. Then koala gives you the ability to copy the list into koala, and it will make sure that the key phrases that neuron writer finds will go into the article. You got to do some editing because it will make the article really long. I want to point I edit all these articles quite extensively because the copy that koala produces is quite good, but it’s more to do with the large learning models. They could be factually incorrect, but normally it’s the data is outdated, so you’ve got to check all the facts and make sure everything’s up to date because it’s using data that might be six to a year old, depending on what you’re writing. But I bought new and write on a lifetime deal, and I use this regularly, not every day, but when I’m writing my articles, I use it.

I think they’re based in Poland, actually. Compared to some of the other SEO tools, such as Jasper, there are about half a dozen. It’s really quite valuable because it starts at 23 for bronze, 45 for silver, 69 for gold, and 93 for platinum. However, using it with something like Koala yields much better results. If you’re not using one of these tools, an experienced SEO copywriter needs a lot of experience to do a really good job.

I agree. Totally. Being one of our core competencies, it requires a significant amount of work. All right, so Ryan Humanizer is last on our list, ladies and gentlemen. I’m looking forward to hearing about this one, John. Go ahead and take it away.

Well, some people like Darren, whom I interviewed this morning, said, I don’t really need to use Humanizer. I decided to use one. What is a humaniser? Well, the content that Koala produces, I then manually paste into Ryan. Ryan, there are about half a dozen of these humanisers. Some are free, others are paid for. I think Ryan is still seen as the most effective one. Essentially, you paste your copy in, and it then performs its magic, disguising that you’re using an AI writer. There are other services that allow you to paste some of the copy into them, and they will perform AI detection on it. Ryan normally passes, not everyone, but the bulk, like Turin, and there are some others who can do it online. It will pass 100% human, and I use it just to add another layer of verification to ensure. Some of these humanizers really do… They make the copy almost unreadable. But Ryan does a pretty good job. You do have to read it, and you do have to perform some checks, but it’s still fairly readable, considering the content it produces, and it does pass most AI detection.

Well, that’s been an incredible list. John uses these tools every day. I’ve stayed away from them. That will not always be the case. Both the tools are improving, and the world is changing. I still am going to leverage the human factor a lot, but the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to understand where the applications for AI will be relevant inside every space that we’re I think the main thing is that there are other people, especially in the SEO space, who still produce hundreds of articles per week.

I’ve never used it that way because you have to read the content and fact-check it. And there are other people who don’t bother; they just churn it out. I tend to add video, and I also add other elements to increase the value of the content. However, in my opinion, you do need to proofread, edit, read, and fact-check it. However, if you have experienced copywriters, there are other platforms. It will still help them increase their profitability, but I wouldn’t be happy with just not checking it and putting it on somebody’s website, which some people are doing, aren’t they?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that’s been our show. That’s been our last show. Thank you so much for tuning in. John, I’m going to let you do whatever you want to do at the very end. Say your goodbyes. If anybody, I am not going anywhere, though, ladies and gentlemen. I’ll still produce content for real estate. I’m going to change it up slightly. You can find whatever my next thing is on the inboundrem. Com site. Probably look at the bottom. You’ll see the last couple of notes or episodes that we’ve posted from this show down there. I will see you there if you want to follow me and join me. John, over to you.

Yeah, I’m not giving up on Mel, right? It’s still up. I’ve still got about half a dozen clients. I’m going to have to focus a little time on my other main business, but I’ve got some ideas for Melright. In the new year, I will probably move that on. I’ve got somebody who’s interested in helping me with that. We’re going to go a slightly different direction with it, which I should have done about 18 months ago, but I’ve been busy with my other business. But I wish you all the success with Melright. Rob. I think it’s going to be a great show. I think we’ll produce some really good content together. It’s just that I need to concentrate on my main business for a few months.

I understand. Listen, sir, I wish you the wind in your sales and all the success in the world. Ladies and gentlemen, I deeply appreciate the time you’ve invested in listening to the advice I or we have given. I hope that it’s helped. I’ve always hoped that it has helped. I hope that you’ve gotten some value. I appreciate how much you’ve all elevated this particular show, and I’m always grateful, personally. And John, I’m grateful to you. I’m grateful for you getting me into this in the first place, and I’m also grateful for you getting me started on the podcast path and helping me understand the value.

That’s fantastic. We’ll see you later, folks. Bye. Ciao.

Zillow Premier Agent review: Discover the good, bad & ugly truth about costs, leads, and competition. Is it worth it for realtors in 2025?

In this enlightening show, we delve into the complex world of Zillow Premier Agent, examining its notable advantages, potential drawbacks, and common pitfalls that users may encounter. Whether you’re a seasoned real estate professional or a newcomer, understanding the full spectrum of experiences is crucial. Join us as we break down everything you need to know about this platform.

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Each additional user increases your monthly bill, starting at around $25-$100 per user, depending on the plan.

Discover the best real estate website platforms in 2025. Compare top features, pricing, and tools to build your perfect property website today.

In this insightful show, we delve into the top real estate website platforms of 2025 that are revolutionizing the industry. From user-friendly interfaces to advanced marketing tools, discover which platforms stand out for agents and buyers alike. We delve into key features, pricing options, and customer support to help you make informed decisions for your real estate needs.

Welcome back. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to talk today about one of my favorite and most knowledgeable subjects: the best real estate website platforms in 2025. And we’re closing out 2025. So, for the seven or eight weeks we have left in the year, here are the website platforms you might consider. There are a lot of people missing from our list, just so you know. And this isn’t us de facto saying, ‘these are the only people for you to look at,’ but it’s common ones you would have heard of, ones you would have definitely been told by other people in the industry to consider. Some of you have already used these companies, so you can measure our advice against your experience. So there we go. That’s my super top-level thing for this subject. But before we go into it any further, because you may not know the voice you’re listening to, and you may not know the person that’s sitting across from me virtually. And that’s John and Robert. So, John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Yeah, thanks, Rob. I’m one of the joint founders of Mel-right. Com. We build really great-looking websites. We provide a really easy-to-use CRM and marketing optimization all in one package at a great price. Back over to you, Rob.

Beautiful. My name is Robert Newman, and I am the founder of Inbound R.E.M. I am a 35-year veteran of the sales and marketing industry, with 16 years in real estate. Specifically, I have worked with most of the company people on the list or consulted with them. I have built hundreds, if not thousands, of real estate websites on my own. I’ve done even more SEO campaigns, and that is what my company does: inbound marketing through SEO. We’re moving into quite a few verticals that are different from the ones on our list today. So let’s jump right into it and get into the meat of the subject. Now, John, I noticed that when you made this list, you included people who were branded or design-focused companies. They’re the people who made it onto the list. Is that correct?

Well, that’s the whole… That’s part of the introduction, isn’t Because there’s a whole divergence between some companies that will do a semi-custom or a full-custom-looking website, really, and spend money on the look of it. And there are others that are more about conversion, so they tend to provide just a website. But it’s, they say, it’s been set up for conversions —one that comes as real geeks, isn’t it? I think they offer some customization there. They offer some templates —I’m not sure —but they used to only offer one-looking website, and they said it was optimized for conversion.

I’ve just realized in this span of you going through your response, that I’m going to do a new blog post, one I’ve never done before, because it’s worth doing. It’s not going to get a a lot of views. But all the different types of real estate sites that currently exist, because RealGeeks has become a filtered search site that, yes, isn’t designed and intended to get you some form of response from your audience. The reason that you have to continuously define real estate websites is that more and more competitors have entered the web design field. No longer do real estate websites hold to a certain type. You have property mortgage sites, and everybody knows they’re supposed to be different. You have carrot websites for sure, investor and flipper sites. In the real estate realtor world, you have Agent Fire and all those other companies like it that are just branded sites. They’re not designed, and Agent Image, and Luxury Presence, and all the people that have made it onto the list. We’re not going to talk about the one that I started off with. We’re going to go through the list and discuss how branded sites are designed. They’re not designed for response.

The salespeople sell them that way. Some of the salespeople, because I know the salespeople, have been working there for 10 or 15 years, and they’ll tell you they’re going to get a response, because one client, one day, got a call in from someplace. It’s not true. It’s not true. You have your sites designed for brokers, mostly, like Sync, Boomtown, and Kevicore, or Bold Trails as they are now, and everybody’s changing their names. Why? It’s the same old tool. They’re just changing the name around, So you have all of those people with different website types, because they’re all incredibly different and they’re designed to do different things. I just think that, to be honest, the companies producing the sites don’t really want to tell you that because they don’t want you to skip their website. If you’re looking for a branded website or you don’t know what the difference is.

It’s difficult, isn’t it? They’re a business, aren’t But I don’t think they lie to people. Agent Image —well, you know a lot more about them than I do, but they seem reasonably established and okay. But it’s really difficult to educate somebody if they’ve got a certain view in their mind and they want a certain thing, isn’t it?

It really is. It really is. So let’s start off the list. And ladies and gentlemen, most of the people that made it onto this list today are, like I already said, they’re not lead generation companies. They have lead-generation elements, such as the ability to do certain things with their service that might increase the likelihood of generating leads, but they are not definitively lead-generation products. And so you need to understand what we mean when we talk about them. Now, if you’re a luxury agent or branded agent, and your website is going to be a representation of your brand with no expectation of it generating any calls, which is not the only way, but it is the best way to approach most of the people on this list in your head, that way you will not be disappointed if you buy their product, is to say, I’m not expecting any leads. And if you just walk into the relationship with every single person on this list with that thought in your head, I guarantee you, for the most part, this is a good list of providers. You will not be disappointed. All right, so let’s start off with number one.

I need to give a disclaimer here because I work for Agent Image for many years, and I’m still close to all of the founders. That is Luigi Amante, Tiger, Betenga, and John Crab. These are three kids that, or originally kids, that 25 years ago started off making websites in their apartment because John’s stepfather, John Arrow, who’s a big real estate broker here, asked them to do so, and they were trying to get a web development business going. So they did so, and he wanted some branded sites. That’s the nature. And they built out another company. They had another company entirely. The agent image was always a side project from their main enterprise, which they have since mothballed because Agent Image became so successful. So the Agent Image is really… But now Agent Image is not that 25 years ago, that’s what it was. Today, it’s 5-750 people in three different countries doing more real estate websites than any other company, including luxury presence that’s out there. Why? Because they’re super established. They’ve been around for 25 years. They get an extraordinary amount of repeat business, and the same agent is coming to them over and over again.

So even though they’re not as loud in the industry as other services are, because they’ve been around quite literally five times longer than anybody else in the real estate. As a matter of fact, they created the luxury real estate website design segment of the industry. They literally created it. Now, that’s the background. The current state of Edge and Image is that they make a reasonably good luxury website. They are a little bit behind on almost all of their ancillary marketing and support services, and they are getting much better at their customer service and some of the support that they give to their website because in their growth phases, they really left that behind. On a scale of 1-10, I’m going to give them a seven, but they are probably still one of the very best that you can talk to if you’re looking for a luxury website design. That’s my super top level. Keeping in mind, everybody that I have close personal relationships with everybody there, so who knows? Maybe my opinion is weighted. Jon?

Well, I think that was about fair. I think some of the designs are a little bit dated, but it’s in the eye of the beholder, isn’t it? But I think they’re a legit company at a legit price. Where do you think the price ranges are at the present moment?

Well, Agent Image is, as a leader in the industry, everybody set their pricing up against them. And so now what’s happened is Agent Image is at the top of the scale. When you come to luxury design, there are a handful of custom people that didn’t make your list, like Union Street Media, and there’s another one whose name I always forget. But they’re both very, very, very good custom design shops, and they both charge between $10,000 and $15,000 to do a custom design. Agent Image, you can still get away with an $8,000 or $9,000 website for basically the same thing. But Most of the time, the vast majority of quotes are going to come in high these days from Agent Image. Their baseline websites now start at two or three grand. A few years ago, it was 1,800, no longer. It is all The price is up across the board. You got to respect it. They’ve got a lot of employees. I’m just trying to state a fact.

They must be making a lot of websites if they got that amount of staff.

It’s not just they make them, John. They’ve got like 30,000 people in hosting at $100 a month plus, plus an override from i Home Finder. They are by far and away the largest i Home Finder client that exists. So just imagine you have 20,000 clients out there and you’re making whatever between $10 and $40 a client per month as an affiliate commission on top of the fact that you’re making $100 a month per website. You can do the math.

Yeah.

They’re doing fine. It has been simply a war of progression with them. I will say this about John and every single one of them, they’ve earned that success. It’s been a long road. There were trying times. I was there for some of the big, really super-trying things, all these people being laid off, staff being moved to the Philippines as they made moves to survive, down markets, 2007. They gave me a job in this industry in the first place. That was Agent Image. Right when everything was collapsing, John Crab was out there hiring people. It was a truly inspired move because he thought, We’ll gain ground while everybody else is retreating. And he wasn’t wrong, it was really a financially… It was a deprivation move financially. And they didn’t have the pocketbook, but John is always a big dreamer. So he does have the pocketbook now, and I don’t know what he’s doing with it, but I will say this about everybody I have the most experience with John Crab. The man has always been good to me. He’s always been an upright human, and he’s hired a lot of upright humans. Whatever comments I make about the quality of their product or their service, it was really young dudes running that company, man, and they made a lot of mistakes, and it rolled down and impacted their clients.

There’s no harm, no foul. I just think people should know. Let’s go on to Agent Fire or Luxury Presence, which is another interesting story of which I’m incredibly intimately aware of. Malta is the former assistant to Jade Mills. Malta is the founder of Luxury Presence, for those of you listening to the show who do not know. Malta, he’s a great guy. Another great guy, another big thinker, big dreamer who said, I do not know what the evolution. Malta has started his own YouTube channel, and it has a lot of his top agencies. He’s had Jay on there a few times. I would imagine that at some point they’ve had their own version of their own origin story out on that channel, and I would recommend that you use it. What I’m going to express It’s straight up an opinion and a thought. It has no bearing on the fact that I actually know some of these people and have relationships with them. I’m just expressing an opinion. The opinion is that I feel like at some point, Jade probably turned to Malta and said she was unhappy with the agent image or unhappy being locked into a single vendor.

Malta looked at the industry as a whole and said, God, it’s ripe for opportunity. Sure, I’ll build you a site. Then somehow turned around and turned that into an idea that Jade then got behind it in finance. That may or may not be completely true or a broad outline of their origin story. But one way or the other, it’s factual that Jade has backed Luxury Presence. That is published and common knowledge. Luxury Presence went ahead and built a product, and they did what every other new entrepreneur has done, and they sourced background technology and data where they could, and they may cut some corners and made some mistakes with their SEO, some of which I personally called them out on. They’ve asked me to correct many times, and they’ve since invested in SEO. They’ve got a really good guy who or somebody, I don’t know who it is, I haven’t met him, but I’ve seen the work, and the Their work is good. Their work is finally good on their own website and starting to get good on some of their client websites in terms of SEO. Luxury Presence is one of those weird companies where it’s also evolved, and they’ve moved into categories that are not just straight up luxury.

They are a luxury website provider. They’re trying to gobble up the entire market, John. Like multi-sinking big. They have products that range for as little as $450 to get into, and products that all the way up to 20,000. So they are across the board with pricing. Their monthly is the same thing. Their baseline product, the last time I got a quote, and I’m not saying this is accurate, I’m just saying the last time somebody told me what they were paying, It was $150 a month. They’re low on the pricing side, well, with certain products that they’re building.

What do you get for 400 from them?

One of their custom… You get a template site that you’re just saying, This is what that looks like. You fill in the blanks here and they launch it, and it’s just a few pages. Really, honestly, John, what you get, if you’re really going to want the opinion, there’s one thing that Luxury Presence does well, has done well since the beginning, that they really called a great shot on it. It’s what the entire company is built around, which is their property module. Their property module, because for those of you who do not know web development, and John does, you oftentimes, if you’re trying to build out a digital platform, as he said in the title of the video, you’re trying to figure out each segment to that website. Contact form is a segment, neighborhood pages would be a segment if you’re building a real estate site, bio pages, and you need to figure out the design and the functionality, each one of those siloed areas on the website. Obviously, as a real estate website, one of the most important silos, ones that realtors are really going to pay I mentioned to, is how do your properties appear on the site?

That’s what Luxury Presence did really well. They came up with a decent homepage that seemed modern at the time, and then they killed it with the property module. It looks like unique to them, unique ways of displaying properties. The best part about this was with Jade’s help, they got the exact right clients to add to their first elements of their portfolio. That is people that sell $50 million homes that look really good in this custom portfolio plugin on their website. That’s what the whole success of Luxury Presence is based on. The average client does not look nearly so sexy in their website because the inventory is not nearly so sexy. But we’re going to hear John’s thoughts. We’re going to come back from break and we’re going to let John share what he thinks about Luxury Presence. I obviously have a lot of opinions because I know all these people. They’re located in my neighborhood. I have opinions. I have thoughts. All right, with no further ado, we’re going to come back. Do us a favor, hit the like button, hit the comment button, hit the whatever button, whatever platform that you’re listening to the show on.

I would really appreciate it. John would probably really appreciate it, and we would love the support. I know that for sure. All right, we’ll be right Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 490 of the MailRight podcast. Today, we are talking about some great real estate website platforms for branding and design in 2025. We are talking about Agent Image, and I shared some thoughts, and John shared some comments. Talked about luxury presence, I shared some thoughts, and now we’re going to hear John’s comments, which he’s sharing after we come back from break. So with no further ado, John, what do you think?

I got nothing really to add, really. I think you summed it up. I think for a certain day, it’s another story, isn’t it? Where the father or somebody in the industry, they knew and they managed to get them started. And I think they’re okay what they do. I think in design terms, this is only my opinion, their sites look a bit better than Agent Image. If you’re in that luxury market, I’ll probably, this is my opinion, again, I’ll probably go with Luxury Presence. Yeah, that’s basically it, Rob.

Copy you. Okay. I want to add a closing thought about luxury presents. We’ve taken a lot of heat on the show. As a matter of fact, we were I’m going to remove somebody from this list because I took heat when I talked about them the last time, and John doesn’t want to deal with it, and I do not blame him. I do not blame him. But I’m going to say this about all of the providers on this list. Listen, most of these guys are like Malta and John and all the rest, they’re good entrepreneurs. They’ve got good salespeople that work for them and things like that, and they are trying, but they’re going to sell you stuff on the hope that it might work, not on a track record of it does work. So you’ve got luxury presence where you call into them and they’re going to get real aggressive about telling you they have some clients that do really well with getting calls. I don’t know that I’ve seen any evidence on on a global scale that even comes close to matching that. I think that they do a great product for luxury agents who only care about brand.

Yeah, I think we got to be really, I wouldn’t say careful, but… Sorry, I got the fire people or the ambulance. That’s better. As our intro, it’s really what you’re looking for, isn’t it? I think the next one we’re going to talk about, which is Real Estate Webmasters. They’re in the luxury in the more bigger brokerage, but they’re not quite the same as Luxury Presence or Agent Image.

They’re the only people on the list, the only ones that you put on this list that have the right to say they’re an SEO company, they can be a generation provider. Plus, they’re also a branded and designed company. They’re also another company on the list, though, that matches Agent Image for the length of time they’ve been in the business. They’ve been doing this. Morgan has been doing this, the guy that founded them, and he’s out of Canada. He’s been doing this for, God, 25 years, too. He and Agent Image got into it about the same time, and he got He used to be called the SEO guy. That was his moniker. He has always been very talented. He is not a guy I would ever recommend that anybody do business with. His business mechanics have been super, super, super real estate webmasters-focused. He is not gentle with his customers. So if you’re looking for a great collaborative experience, I do not feel like what real estate webmasters will be it. Though that’s my opinion. Again, want to be clear, call them and find out for yourself if you so choose. But I will say this.

I’ve always had to say this about real estate webmasters investors. They make freaking stuff that works. That’s the whole thing.

How long have they been in the business longer than agent image?

At least, like roughly the for the time, maybe longer. Morgan has been at it for a long time.

They keep a pretty low profile as well, don’t they?

No.

No? You think you wouldn’t? No.

Morgan is just an unusual entrepreneur, but he’s been on Dragon’s Den and other incredibly high-profile things.

I mean, recently, last few years.

Since they went through the evolution where they tried to turn themselves into… They had relationships with every single top luxury broker that was out there, and they pissed them all off. Frederick England and Barbara Corkran and all those. You’ll notice there’s no mention of them at all on the website. It anymore. That is just simply because, to the best of my knowledge, Morgan seems to have a hard time keeping relationships together with anybody long term. These really high-profile partners that they had for those really super high-end luxury designs went away, and thus they don’t see… I do not see them mentioned. I’m not saying they’re not there. I haven’t found them. All those names are gone. The designs that were named after those agents are gone. They had a podcast that they got started, which seems to be gone. I used to get all these emails from them that they’ve stopped. They’re an up and down company, and Morgan is all over the place. But I will say this, once again, I just want to keep repeating myself here. A lot of people who are really creative, John, tend to be crazed in terms of their approach to business.

And Morgan is one of those. But when I see his products most of the time, when I see this stuff work, most of the time, it is well above average, but well above anything else that you can buy. Though, hear me on this, everybody listening to the show, you’ll spend 10 times more. Morgan is going for a slice of your business in a significant way in terms of his pricing. He has always set the standard for highest price by miles, not even close in terms of what you pay and what you get. Now, he went in-I just wanted to ask you quickly, Was there any particular…

Was it just the SEO optimization, local SEO? What was the secret sauce in general then?

To his website?

Yeah.

So I’ve talked a lot about the fact that threading the needle between sites that do well for SEO and do well for conversion and all that is extremely difficult. Well, originally, Morgan created the filter search site that worked, and his idea was this. He thought, 20 years ago, correctly, that if you made a whole bunch of automated searches, that he was the very first person who did this, by the way, John, that I know of, where he looked, drilled down into every single little detail of a neighborhood, every single little thing that had a search element to it and added it as a quick search. If you had a pocket neighborhood that had a name with four houses in it, he would create some filter search on a real estate website, which, by the way, is a fucking fantastic SEO mechanic when you get out in front of everybody else and are doing it. So his website’s ranked like the bomb because he was the person that created the strategy. Google was rewarding search all the time, so his sites would get tens of thousands of visits. The mechanics have changed. Sementic keyword recognition has changed, so you shouldn’t expect that result anymore.

But I do need to give credit where credit is due. And Morgan, as far as I know, may have been the guy that created that strategy. If he wasn’t, he is certainly the one that popularized it. No doubt about that.

Well, that’s clear. So onto the last one?

No. One last thing. The condition of real estate webmasters today is I haven’t seen their back in CRM. The last time I did see it, it was not nearly as good as some of the earlier versions. I have to say that. His PPC sites, which he’s focused on and is using his wife as a beta the last time I really analyzed their product, and it seems to be working super fast, and they seem to have drifted in the direction of PPC sites as opposed to SEO. I do not know that the condition of their websites or products today is quite as cutting edge or bleeding edge or if they dominate the market in those spaces like they used to. You’re taking that chance yourself. I don’t think he’s building websites with the same logic anymore. I had to say that, John, because I think he’s really mostly building PPC response sites that still do filtered searches, but not nearly as deep as they used to. All right, that’s all I’ve got to So now, Playster. I sent a note to you to change the link on this one. Okay? John? Sorry? You have a site unavailable link.

Oh, sorry.

I sent you an email about this. All right, so moving forward, I find something really fascinating about Playster. I haven’t looked at them since we did that interview with the head of content for them, Seth Price. And that was a few years ago, I think, a couple of years ago, at least, and they were just bidding this. So I go back to their website today and I open it up and discover that to my surprise, they are emulating a strategy that Agent Image did 20 years ago. And that is they have come up with a small set of templated websites that have names. That is exactly the strategy that Agent Image had, including on WordPress. When WordPress was brand new, Agent Image was building on WordPress with themes that had names and demoing them on their website. So it was fascinating to me that that is where they’ve gone, but they have an automated site, although that is quite different than what Agent Image was doing, which is probably They’ve definitely hammered down processes that seem to be unique. That’s what I have to say so far. What do you think, John?

Yeah, I don’t build them on WordPress, or is it a priority software? Is he still there? Do you know if they’re building them on WordPress?

They most certainly are.

Right. Yeah, sure. I suppose it depends. What do you think they’re doing and what they’re offering?

I think that they have finally got it right. What they’re doing, though, which really needs to be carefully sussed out, is number one, they’re building on WordPress, but they’re using the same thing that they’ve always used, which is WordPress multisites. That is a fancy way of saying you cannot ever own these sites, but they have changed a mechanic that is really important. You can build a site 10 minutes less, which is about right for pricing, which is $59 to $129 with very little set up, no set up. You can also start a free trial, so you can build one for free. All of their back-end stuff, all the things that they do that would be advanced, would come on the back-end, and it isn’t even mentioned in their pricing sheet because they’re trying to keep it simple. You have to go way, way, way down the price list stuff to see what is even available as.

Who’s buying this, though? Because fundamentally, the brokerage is using KVCore, or you’re using real geeks, aren’t they? I suppose, or have they done deals with the large franchise brokerage? They’ve probably got to deal with a large franchise brokerage, have they?

I don’t know. Yeah, they’ve had a deal in place with Nara for a long I don’t know if that’s in place anymore, and they may have distanced themselves because Nara is just shedding the bed, John. But they’ve been shedding the bed for a long time. They’re just getting called to account for all the bed wetting that they have done up to this point. So I’m going to say this, the last I heard- I love you, Robert.

For all your flaws, you do make me laugh.

Hey, that’s something, right? That’s something. These guys- You pissed me off on a few occasions.

You really got me up, but you’ve also been funny. You’ve also been funny.

Yeah, that’s me. Love and hate relationship. That’s exactly what my partners say about me, John. So there you go. All right, so what I’m going to see, the rest of this is like, do they have a relationship in place? Yes, they I had one with NAR, and who uses them? Brokers. Oh, my God, are they a good solution for a broker? They’ve always been a good solution for a broker. You have a website, like an agent who’s broke or new or whatever, and they come to you and they say, Oh, you just told me to get a website in your whatever sales meeting or whatever, and I can’t afford one, blah, blah, blah. And then you say, Okay, you can get a really good one from place for $59 a month, and it will give you everything that you need. A branded site, a place to go, place to put your phone number. It’s got a big spot in the marketplace because it’s so inexpensive and easy to produce.

Well, that was the market. Oh, am I? You mean that?

There you go. You’ve also got a big spot in your market. Placeter is probably the main competitor that you’ve got on this list. In terms of pricing, that’s-Well, I’m cheaper, but I should put it up a bit, but yeah, there we go.

But all right, final thoughts. Can I go first? Because you know a lot more. Yeah, please. Where would I… Which one would I choose? I suppose it’s agent image, really. If you want somebody that’s been in the industry and you’re looking for a semi or Posto website, and you’re not into thinking you’re going to get a load of leads. The second one is Placer, I suppose, if you’re looking for that inexpensive solution that you’re broker. Because compared to some of the other players out there that are more platforms, I exclude real geeks. I don’t think you’re too keen on them. I’ll put in words in your mouth there, so you’ll be able to come back on that. But I don’t mind real geeks. I’m not a great fan of KVCore and some of the other bigger platforms, I think. To me, it’s either stage an image for that luxury, maybe mid-range website or its place there. What’s your thoughts?

Well, Real Geeks isn’t on this list because they’re a filtered search site, lead generation site, and they always have been. They’re fucking fantastic for the price and the functionality that they give you for what they are. If you’re looking for a mid-range product that’s not going to break the bank, that you’re going to have to spend a lot of money advertising into, then it’s real use. Why don’t I talk about it that much, John? It’s pretty simple. At the end of the day, PPC sites are all about the place you drive them. You can get a hell of a deal on a website, but the problem is that if you decided to cut corners on, let’s say, the filtered nature of the website, you limit the effectiveness of your PPC campaigns because AdWords is looking for very defined landing pages. There’s savings on the back-end and performance increases on the back-end if you do a really deep, filtered website. Now, if you did that with RealGeeks, you have to spend extra money. For that extra For money, do you end up coming out ahead against other products like Sierra Interactive or real estate webmasters? The answer is no.

They’re not best in class. Everybody took the idea that Jeff had and did it better. I don’t blame him because the guy sold the company he wanted out. I don’t think he was ever intending to make Real Geeks what it was. He bailed out of it as soon as he possibly could find a buyer. God bless him because he always said on his videos that he did, I want to go back to being a real estate agent, and I don’t blame them. That’s my thoughts there.

What do you think of what I said, either agent image or place Depending on what you’re looking for.

I agree with that. I think that each one of these companies has a very definitive role, and I think that somebody, if you really, really care about spending your money correctly, then what you really should do, everybody, and this is so self-serving, but it is true, you should get on the phone with John or I. I have a little more experience in the category of looking at different companies and understanding their offers. But if you’re looking at the place your section of this, then I think it’s actually John that is the better person to talk to because he built a service that does this. He has way more knowledge about the kinds of features that he’s trying to build out in terms of under a certain price point.

For a very long time, too long, Rob. But I was a bit annoyed working with you and doing this podcast. It’s been my university degree in a way.

Exactly. Let’s call one of the two of us if you really want to know, because my challenge here, John, is that it’s all about the problem you’re trying to solve. Okay? And so you’re like, Which is bad? I don’t know. If you’re a brand-new agent, first-year, and you’re trying to solve the problem of your pocketbook, call John or Playster. That’s it. Call John, call Playster. That’s my advice. And if you’re an experienced agent trying to do something with your brand, this agent Age and Image, every day, all day long, to back up what you said.

The only thing is, some of the designs are a bit dated, aren’t they? Of Age and Image, or do you think I’m being a bit harsh there?

I think that the real estate industry is 10 years behind. Is Age and Image 10 years behind? Yes, they are. But are they alone?

Some of the templates we’ve produced lately, you were a bit harsh, but I was thinking, well, they look a little bit better than Age and Image. Or I think they’re equivalent of Placer. I think Placer, I’ve just been looking at some of them. They’re fine, aren’t they? They’re not fantastic, but they’re not bad either, are they?

No. Some of the websites that Agent Fire has produced — the only thing I would defend myself, Rob, is that we’re using Cadence.

It’s Gutenberg. I don’t know what page builder they’re using, or if it’s the internal one, but I really like Cadence. And with Gutenberg, you get a nice page built —drag-and-drop with Cadence. So I’m pleased with what we did. Shall we call it, wrap it up now, Robert?

We shall. So, ladies and gentlemen, that’s been, and we should break this into segments, John. We should do a series of shows before the year ends and let everybody know the status of each website type, because I think it’s more… It would serve the audience better. So, ladies and gentlemen, I’ve been Robert Newman. I am obviously a fairly experienced guy when it comes to building real estate websites. I have a lot of opinions about them. If you’re curious about those opinions or where to find more information about them, go to my website, inboundrem. Com. I, for some reason, see that some of you are looking for guidance and investing —let’s call it more than a couple of thousand dollars —then you should probably book a consultation with me. I am not going to try to sell you anything unless, of course, it turns out that what you’re looking for is exactly what we offer, which is mostly inbound lead-generation websites powered by SEO (search engine optimization). That’s mostly what we do it for, video, for local. We have a lot of different offers now. So go to inboundrem.

If you have any questions about that. John, I’m going to let you segue yourself off.

Yeah, thanks, Rob. Like I say, if you want to find out more about mail-right. Com, it’s a really fantastic platform. Got a load of features you’re going to find really useful. Just go over there and book a demo for me. Back over to you, Rob.

Beautiful. Well, that’s been our show, ladies and gentlemen. As usual, we appreciate your balls for these kinds of things. I’m going to ask once again for the umpiring time. Listen, we’ve worked so hard, so long on the show, and we would like to get it in front of more people. That’s easily accomplished as long as some of you, about one out of every 10 of you, thumbs up our website or thumbs up the show where you’re hearing it, or leave a comment on Spotify or Apple to iTunes or wherever you happen to be listening to the show, because it really matters on every single platform for every single hour. We would really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Take a soft line, John.

Are you a newly licensed real estate agent eager to succeed in the competitive 2026 market? In this video, we delve into essential strategies and innovative techniques that will help you stand out from the crowd. From leveraging technology to building meaningful client relationships, we cover everything you need to know to establish a successful career in real estate.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 489 of the MailRight podcast. We are so excited to bring today’s subject. There’s no more important subject than music if you are a new real estate agent trying to figure out how to be successful in 2026. It’s a new world in which we live. Before we begin the show, I’d like to thank our sponsors, InboundREM and Mail-Right. Mail-Right is an all-in-one tool. John can elaborate on it when he introduces himself. And InboundRIM is likely one of the leading providers of information to real estate agents in all aspects of their careers, as well as a provider of websites, SEO, and AI CIO services. Without further ado, I’d like to introduce my amazing and brilliant co-host, who will let everyone know who he is in case you’re not already familiar. John?

Thanks, Rob. I’m the joint founder of Mail-Right. Com. We provide fantastic-looking websites, a CRM, and a range of other digital tools to help you generate high-quality leads. Back over to you, for those of you who may be do-it-yourselfers and are wondering what a great resource is for building a WordPress website, I recommend John’s other podcast, WP Tonic, one of the largest podcasts on the subject of WordPress.

He’s been doing it for a very long time. It’s a far larger show than this one, and he has secured some of the best guests in the world on this particular subject. If you haven’t already done it, go ahead and check out WP Tonic. If you’re looking for how-tos, check out inboundrem. Com, and you can find out how to do many of the things we’ll discuss in more detail than we can cover on the podcast today. With no further ado, we will discuss some strategies. Now, if you’re a long-time listener to the podcast, this may not be the episode for you, as we’ve discussed some of these topics before. However, if you’re a new agent, this is definitely the podcast you want to be listening to at this exact moment. Why? Establishing a career and having a plan, a business plan, is crucial, even if it’s not discussed much with you in general. If you’re not planning to succeed, you’re planning to fail. That is an old saying that has been around for a long time, and I couldn’t agree more with the idea that it’s really important to have a game plan in place.

Today, our objective on this podcast is to provide you with a couple of ideas about where and how to start your game plan. Things that you may not have considered, or perhaps things that you can, and we’re just to remind you why you should do them. John, when you were starting the… Let’s just say any of your new podcasts, because I think you’ve got a couple that I know of, maybe you’ve done more that I don’t necessarily know of. When you’re planning for some new project, how do you kick that off?

Well, I didn’t plan the WP tonic. I was working for Noble Studios, a regional digital agency. They’re still in business in Reno. I completed my degree in the UK and earned an associate degree in the US. Then I got a job with Noble Studios. Then I was asked to do by somebody I met at a local event who was into a bit of an amateur sound audio guy, and he wanted to do a podcast, and he wanted to know more about WordPress, so he said, Why don’t we do it together? That wasn’t really that planned, to be truthful, Robert. I do the Membership Machine Show, and I’ve been doing that for about three years, and that’s really focused at the target audience of the WP tonic business, and I do this podcast with you.

Okay, so let’s just talk about the Membership Machine Show. I think I know the answer, but I’m not sure the audience does. So you decide to start not one, not two, but a third podcast, because I know this one has been gone longer than three years. I’ve been working with you on it for three years. So what made you think that that was the strategy you wanted to pursue, and how did you come to a resolution and say, Okay, it’s worth yet more of my time to do yet another podcast?

Well, it’s more focused on our target audience because WP Tonic is a boutique hosting and support company for those who want to run a membership community-focused WordPress website. The membership machine shows that we not only cover WordPress, but also the SaaS alternatives and marketing, and we mix it all up. But it is very much targeted at those who want to build a real business around learning, eLearning.

So, you thought, ‘I saw the need because I was already in the niche, and I decided, I’m going to serve the need that I think is there.’

Yeah, where the WP I keep it going because I’ve met so many people and it’s built influence and all the back links and all the SEO and the domain authority that WP tonic gets, and the sponsorship I get, which isn’t enormous, but it’s reasonable. So there’s a lot of benefits of keeping that show going. But it’s not targeted at my target audience. It’s aimed at WordPress freelancers, higher-end implementers, really people that are really interested in WordPress.

So the point of that series of questions, ladies and gentlemen, and John participating in that little conversation there is to show you an example of building out a business strategy. In this particular case, there was somebody who was already dabbling in to put this specifically into real estate terms. Let’s just say you’re walking into the real estate business, you’re doing what every real estate agent pretty much I’ve ever met does. You’re saying, I just want to sell homes anywhere, any type. So you start to do that however you do it. You knock on doors, you get leads from Zillow, you do whatever you do. You sell a few homes, and you start to realize that People are probably asking you questions about maybe a specific real estate type, condos, waterfront, investment. I can go on and on. And you start to think, Oh, it seems like a lot of people are asking me about second home investment property. So So maybe I should start to focus on that. That right there is a business strategy. That is a business plan. That is the beginning of one, at least. That is this thought that maybe there is a specific audience I can appeal to directly and have a better job of generating business there.

Would you agree with my outline?

Yeah, I do. I think when you’re starting off, it’s road kill. Whatever comes on your radar, you got to go for it. But you should have a strategy, and we’ve discussed this in a few of the episodes. After a certain period of time, the more you can find a niche. Obviously, a lot of people listening to this podcast are going to be shouting out, Well, I don’t live in a big enough area or city to be able to have a niche. But I don’t agree with that. I think the bread and butter, it really depends on what area you’re doing business in. But let’s say you’re in the $300, $400, $300, $400. The bread and butter is where I would want to start off with. I feel that’s where the real money is. I know there’s some real luxury people that are really done fantastic. That’s great for them, but I think the real money is in the bread and butter. But you can still find a niche in that bread and butter market, as I call it.

We’re moving down a series of bullet points, and I’m doing it a little bit more fluid today. But, John, what do you think… If I was to ask you this question, as a less experienced business person than you are and say- I think you’re much more experienced than me.

I’ve just done What I’ve had to do, I’ve run a dry cleaning business, very successful in the UK. I run it for 23 years, and I got into web development and I run a couple of businesses. I’ve actually only run three businesses in the whole of my business career, Robert.

Which is still, the question is going to prevail, which is, what do you think is relevant about a sales strategy in 2026? Just best guess, like RIF, and put yourself maybe in the shoes of a real estate salesperson.

Well, I think it’s really understanding the realities of the market. Seventy-five % of real estate agents don’t sell one house, one property in the whole year. It’s disastrous. Seventy-five % drop out in less than five years. A production of two million. Sounds a lot, but When you look at the net amount, it’s not very good. You got to be looking at at least four million in production, at least 13 to 15 properties per year. Then after you take what the broker wants, the federal tax, the state tax, the running costs, you take it all out, you’ll probably end up with a gross of about at 45 to 50,000 at 4 million production. A lot of agents are part-time, so they can run their business at a lower This is not an attack at the brokerage. A lot of the traditional brokerages aren’t making the enormous amount of money. It’s a big problem in the real estate industry, a lack of profitability.

Sure. I’m going to say, I’m going to rift on something that you just said, John, and I’m going to say that while it wasn’t specific in the title of the podcast, there’s a really important part because this is, do you understand the sales environment in 2026? And I think that most agents actually don’t understand the sales environment, not because… And I mean it from the perspective that you just brought up. They don’t understand the sales environment through the eyes of the broker that they’re potentially signing up with. Because most brokerages, especially with the proliferation of what are called digital brokerages, anybody listening to this show that is identifying as a new agent should probably already know what that is. But in case you don’t, it’s like eXp or Real are two of the bigger examples. They are brokerages that don’t have offices, they don’t have brick and mortar, and their model really is recruiting agents in mass. But different brokerages, especially smaller local regional ones who have to compete against all these newfangled brokerages, now they may provide some value when you sign up underneath them because they probably have an existing environment where they’re going to provide some leads and maybe some mentorship, which is something farther down on our list in terms of strategy today.

But let me tell you, digital brokers provide none of that. They provide you online mentorship, yes. They provide you digital mentorship, yes. But part of your sales strategy for 2026 needs to be, first and foremost, in the planning stages, understanding the person that you are. Can you learn virtually? Because if the answer is no, you’ve eliminated a lot of the places that you would work. Because even some of the traditional brokerages have gone into a no office model where you don’t have to come into the office and you don’t have to sit down at a desk. Most good brokerages with good strategies will insist that you come and sit in what’s called the bullpen and still sit in the office. These days, the bullpen is not so much about people walking through the doors no matter what they tell you. There’s a few exceptions, but most of the time for traffic is minimal. What it does do, though, is give you an opportunity to be around other more experienced salespeople and pick up tips. If you’re an in-person learner, you need to probably go with a more traditional brokerage that has some of those strategies in place.

Would you agree?

I do, but point two, you’ve been in sales all your life. I’m in sales. I’m in sales myself now. You got to understand the sales process. You got to understand that you can’t be the invisible agent. You got to understand whatever is contacting next. Well, I’ve been critical just general phoning, but when it comes to expires, yeah, it’s tough market. The good thing about hitting expires is you got to learn your scripts and you’ve got to get some training, and it’s just good training. You’re going to harden up because you’re going to get a bit of abuse when you run up expires. But after you’ve done a lot of it, it becomes on the duck’s back. But I just think it hardens you up to do expires, to hit them up. But you got to understand you’re there to get leads. The broker ain’t going to get you leads.

Sure, which is sales skills 101. And most people hitting real estate, the 75% failure rate that John mentioned, which is a true statistic he mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, is because most real estate salespeople, and don’t ask me why, they drop the salespeople out of their title, and they forget that if you’re going to get into this career, you’re getting into a sales career and the old adage in sales still applies. I did my sales comeuppance in the hardest way possible. I did a lot of hand-to-hand on the street, and I learned a lot of scripts from a lot of different people I worked for, and I did the script exactly as I was told to do it, and I learned the pros and cons of whatever that is. Now, the old-school people that are out there that will still train you using scripts is like Mike Ferry. Tom Ferry and most other people have gone a more fluid type of teaching, which is not necessarily good depending on what learner you are. If you’re a learner that’s going to do best, if you know exactly what you’re supposed to say, believe it or not, old-school brokerages are probably, again, the best thing for you.

Can I just quickly say something about it? It’s about you’re going to get the same objections coming up. You’ve got to know how to handle them with aplomb, but you’re going to be confronted If you’re dealing with the same industry, you’re going to hear the same objections. You got to have a methodology to overcome objections. The best way is to train. If you’re blabbering or you get worked up when you hit objection, and you’re going to hit objections all the time, you need some training or you need to get out of the game quick. It’s really quite simple, isn’t it?

It really is. On that great point, we’re going to go to break. I want to thank John, and I want to thank the companies that provide us the ability to do this podcast for you, InboundREM and MailRight or MailRight and InboundREM. It’s Mel-right, if you want to check them out, it’s in the A, I, R-I-L-R-I-G-I-T-H, or if I spell that correctly. Com. And InboundREM is I-N-B-O-U-N-D-R-E-M. Com. Anyway, thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it. When we come back from break, we are going to talk about We’re going to get into some of the more nitty-gritty stuff, the difference between busy work and lead gen work, building a referral network, using a CRM, and then we’re going to have some closing thoughts. So stay tuned for that great stuff, especially if you’re a new agent. We can’t wait to share with you. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s episode number 489 of the MailRight podcast. Today’s episode is quite special because we are speaking to an audience that we don’t have time to address nearly enough. That is the brand new agent. We’re talking to the new agent about how to succeed.

In the first part of the episode, we talked about some do’s and don’ts about choosing brokers, and we did a little bit of a rift on how Identify Our Market. We use John as a live example in how to do that. In this part of the podcast, we’re going to talk about the difference. We’re going to start off by talking about the difference between busy work and real estate lead generation work. I’m going to ask John to kick off that subject because he did some proper due diligence on some of these topics. I have some things to add based on my own personal experience, but John, take it away.

Yeah, I think a lot of those that are starting as newbies, they fill their days with what I call busy work. They fill their days with endless social… I believe in social media, if you’ve got strategy, you know what you’re doing. I think I said before the break, I think contacting next wires is a good idea because it toughens you up and you got to get some script training. But I think it can work in getting some money, basically, get the ball rolling. I think social media, having a social media strategy. We’ve discussed this in a number of episodes, you can look for it, folks. We’ve said video is king. I don’t know how many bloody times we’ve said that over the last episodes. I think finding a mentor, somebody who is a producer that actually sells 20, 30, 40, 60 houses a year and just doing the donkey work that helps them, and they become your mentor. You’ll do the open housing, you’ll go around the buyers, show them around all the donkey work, and long as they’re prepared to show you their processes, I think it’s well worth. Finding a local mentor, that’s a real producer is really important.

I don’t think you’re going to get a certain amount of training from certain brokerages national, but I think finding a real local mentor that’s a real producer, and you’re going to have to… That sounds like donkey… That’s more productive donkey work, busy work, than filling your days with whatever your brokerage tells you to do, in my opinion. I don’t know what you think.

I think that these are all good points, and I think you’ve made them well. I’m going to go a little deeper in a slightly different direction, but add a little bit of context. If for some reason you’re sitting here going, Robert, I don’t want to learn how to be a salesperson, not a professional one, not go through hours of sales training and hire a Tom Ferry who’s going to put a business coach on you and teach you things like alternate choice closes and try to coach you up to do the discipline to knock on doors or make phone calls. Let’s just say none of that is your jam, but you still want to be a real estate agent. All right, let’s take that video comment. Video is probably one of the best lead generation strategies that a new agent can consider if they don’t have sales experience. If you’re not the closer of all closers, you can use a very minor amount of video editing skills and a little bit of discipline to go out and do things like walk through listings that are available for you to walk through and stuff like that. Do a little bit of research, try to add a little bit of context to stuff that people may have not talked about the listing, certain elements of the listing that may or may not have been highlighted in the listing pictures online.

So it requires a little bit of research, camera, and discipline. With that, with that, you can just, with a a real estate license, you can post that content to Instagram, Facebook, and many other places where with a very minor amount of research, you could use some of the work that I’ve done on inboundrem. Com and reference some of our articles, and you can figure out how to hashtag and do all the stuff for real estate that you need to do. That might give you a way to generate some leads. It might give you a way to grow an audience, and it might give you a way to backdoor a start to your real estate career. Now, that’s the real estate media strategy. My comment about mentorship. Thank you once again to Alan Jacob, Lenny Goldsmith, Bill Haberstadt. These are people that took the time and energy when I was very young to teach and It trained me, it disciplined me down, provide gentle leadership, and helped me refine my skillset as it relates to being a salesperson, and in some ways an entrepreneur. And with Alan Jacob, it was 100% a leader. I didn’t learn as much about sales from Alan, but I learned a massive amount about leadership.

And these are people that, yes, they were making commission off me. They were making money off me. So that’s the thing that you have to understand about mentors. There are many people who set themselves up in a position where they’re going to make money if you’re successful. And those, in my opinion, are some of the people that you really want to look for. Now, Lenny Goldsmith is the rarest of the rare. A guy I sat next to who just decided to mentor me out of the of his heart with no compensation of any kind ever. I did a lot, not a lot. I did some donkey work for him. I brought him stuff. I did some busy work for him every now and again. I listened to some of his bad jokes because he was an entertainer and wanted to entertain. I did a lot of those things in order to facilitate value so that he in turn would allow me to sit next to him because at the time, it was an allow thing. He got to choose who sat next to him. He was one of the top producers for a reasonably decent-sized company.

There was no sitting next to him if he didn’t want you to. So that was an interesting experience. You have to figure out what you can do. It can be listening to somebody running work for them.

But do you think… I think it’s really worthwhile because you got to get up and running quick. And if somebody who’s a top producer is taking you on, the amount you’re going to learn, You’re going to learn a lot, I would have thought.

I learned most of what I know. If I tried to put into value what these three people taught me, I mean, any success that I’ve had, it all can be attributed to them. Billy Hubbertstatt taught He was the very first guy that taught me how to use marketing statistics in terms of running call centers. He was the most important of all the mentors because he got me off the ground and allowed me to speak in such a way that people took me seriously. It was all Billy Harberstadt, and I was 19. So Find a mentor if you can. To me, I cannot stress enough. It’s such an old-school thought. If you find a digital mentor, you’re like, Neil Patella is one of my mentors, too. But I’ve never talked to the guy. Anyway, we’ll move on because John’s getting Nancy. How would you advise a realtor to build a referral Well, it’s just like we said in previous podcast, this is all stuff that we’ve discussed, isn’t it?

You can’t be the invisible real estate agent, have you? You got to get out there, go to any free activity or group. When it’s free, don’t stick your card in front of people, though. I hate that, but engage in conversations, tell them that you’re a real estate agent, keep going to these events. You’re going to have a But your aim is to get one home bought or sold each month. If you could, after six months, do one a month, I think you got a problem if you’re doing this full-time. You got to get up to 30, 60 sales per year, really, if you’re going to make… You got to get at it. Building relationship, that’s what this bloody business is about. It’s about digital marketing and building real relationships in your area. That’s what it’s about. It’s about referral linked to digital marketing. They’re the two things that work in 2026. You got to get out there, talk to people, build relationships, be generous, help them, hopefully they’ll help you. You got to get out there.

It’s funny that you listed this because you’re right, we’ve talked about it a lot. I talk to a lot of real estate agents, and I sometimes talk to them about… When I talk to them about… One of my first opening questions when people are calling in for a consult is, Where are you getting your leads from? There’s lots of listing, lots of different places that people list. It has been a very long time since an agent called in to me and said to me, I am actually making 40% of my income off referral networks. He was doing it all digitally. I’m just going to give you some stuff that people forget right off the top of your head. Number one, he is on a service called US News Real Estate. It’s a section of a big news site that you can list yourself as an agent. He is on there. He’s on HomeLight, which most of you have heard of. He’s on Coldwell Banker. He’s on a website that somebody else produced called A. Dustin A, Dustin Holmes. He’s also on Zillow. Referral networks in today’s world, ladies and gentlemen, are every place that you can post a profile that is relevant.

He’s got seven five-star reviews on realtor. Com. He’s He’s got seven on Zillow. He’s got three on Facebook and five on LinkedIn. This guy is a master of the referral network strategy. He builds out a profile, he gets a couple of reviews, makes sure a couple of people post reviews there. He had a numbers mentality. When I asked him, because I asked him, John, How many of these places are paying you out? He says, About 10 referral networks send me at least one deal a year. I was flummoxed I have not heard of anybody being-I haven’t heard that one.

But I did say that I think face-to-face and digital, the problem is a lot of agents, they can do the face-to-face, but they can’t grasp their mind a bit of the digital or they’re going fully digital. I think the real success story, especially if you can combine both.

I agree, which leads to an interesting thing. There is a term that we use all the time on the show, CRM, Customer Record Management System. I said this in one of the podcast a couple of years back. Here’s what I want to say before we even start talking about the subject. Most of these systems, which are called CRMs, are really not fair to call them CRMs. They’re really everything, RM. They’re all relationship management combined into one. They’re your task tracker, they’re your email sender, they remind you when to do things and how to do things, and which gets put under the umbrella of CRM. But I use my CRM to tell me what to do with my day, to track phone calls, to create calendar events, sometimes related to work and sometimes not. They’re basically a total schedule creator and minder, which is how I think most people use CRMs these days. They manage most of your schedule off using a core tool. Now, John’s point here, for those of you that are going to go and download the show which all of you should on the mail-right. Com website, and maybe mine, but probably his.

Use a CRM. It doesn’t really matter which one that you start with. Just find one that you can use and use it, and I agree with that a thousand %. Find something that’s going to organize your work and your personal into a schedule that you can manage. For those of you who have kids or are working real estate part-time, you’ll understand how important this is. Especially if you’re trying to do two careers at once as you transition over into real estate, you’re going to really want to pick a one-size-fits-all tool to start with, and then you’re going to want to learn it as well as you possibly can, only in trying to remind yourself how to use your time to best effect, which is anything that’s not a sales activity is not best effect. Now, if you’re using lead generation through video, you want to create as many videos as you have time to do. If you’re doing door knocking, you want to knock on doors. If you’re doing referral networking, you want to start a new site or a new referral network site, or you want to go to an event or a PTA meeting or any of the places that you can go where you can meet people and start to build out a referral network.

That’s my hot take on this. What do you have to say about CRMs?

Yeah, just put in information in it. There are various methodologies about how you use the CRM, but you want to put information about conversations, so none of us got a perfect memory. You should have your hot, warm and lukewarm or cold. It’s those… Because we’ve discussed this endlessly, haven’t we? The buying cycle. Not everybody is a hot lead ready to buy or sell right now, but they could be a warm. They’re looking to move or sell the house in six months. You need to keep in contact with those people. Other people might be 18 months out. But we’ve discussed this endlessly as well, haven’t we?

We have. I’ve got four. We’re going to close out. For those of you looking for some ideas, I’m going to give you five, six reasonably good places to start. John and I both have some reasonably good content that could be leveraged to start a real estate business. I’m not going to say our URLs again because I’ve already dropped them both four times this episode. I’m also going to add a couple of names to the list that I respect. You’ve got Ricky Carruth, who is really good if you’re cold calling You’ve got Jimmy Burgess, who is a one-size-fits-all guy that you use.

I like Jimmy’s stuff. He’s not slimy, is he? He’s education, but he’s not slimy, is he?

Not even a little bit. You’ve got Kyle Handy, especially if you’re going to join eXp, Ricky Carlos is the same. You’ve got, and that would name again was Kyle Handy. Interesting guy if you want to track some statistics for how much you might earn doing some of these things. You’ve got Tom Ferry at top level motivation, but I don’t know that a brand new agent is really going to learn how to be a better agent straight off Tom Ferry. It would take a lot of work to go through all this content, I think.

I got one on my list. I was really impressed. It’s a guy from Florida, and it’s Joan Brooks.

Okay. Is that one of the three references?

It’s the top YouTube video. And he’s got YouTube, and he’s got a a lot of videos. And he’s independent brokerage, him and his wife. I think they’ve done well. They’ve done well in less than four or five years, but they’re not idiots. He’d done the first video, and it really does highlight the lack of profitability a lot. But to be fair, if you just want to do this part-time, obviously the costs are totally different. For somebody that’s doing it full-time, aren’t they? It’s a totally different animal, isn’t it? But if you’re doing this full-time and you really want to… The realities are quite shocking, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be as successful, but you got to educate yourself quick, and you got to get real about this quick.

You do indeed, and Somebody, again, probably one of my mentors said, Half in is a half win. That’s a term I’ve remembered for the entirety of my career in life. Half in is a half win. It’s pretty difficult to look at anything as a half and think that it’s going to be wildly successful. I have started plenty of careers while working part-time in one and part-time in another, plenty. I finally realized very late in life, in my 40s, that there was really not a brass ring at the end of the half-in thing that was worth having. So I went all in with like, inbound R-E-M. I did work two jobs to afford the money to save for inbound R-E-M. And then what I did is I started inbound R-E-M properly by going all in from the very first moment I decided, like I got the incorporation license and said, and now we’re on. It makes a big difference, but it is very risky. That’s why entrepreneurship and everything else that carries huge rewards, the The reason that not the vast majority- I just want to say something, and I’m not diminishing what you’re just saying because you’re sharp.

But what I mean is, the couple of jobs or the main job you were doing, you were building relationships with the people that you’re going to do your main business with anyway. So you had some people who would take your calls would listen to you. That’s cute. I started Mail-Right, and I didn’t have any established relationships in the Mail-Right real estate industry. That wasn’t very clever, but you only know what you know, don’t you? So you were much sharper than I.

I just did it, but I failed more times, John. By the time I started at Boundary, I had tried seven other businesses and run countless others for other people, and made money as a commission-only salesperson for close to 25 years. This was because I worked differently from most people. But that’s where my advice comes from. Being successful is a road, and it’s a long one. Those of you who are new to a real estate career, planning to be successful long-term, understand that there’s a lot of hard work between you and the end goal. Start with a plan. Start with a small plan that’s easy to execute, something to generate leads and get yourself some business, and plan to fail a lot. Plan on it. Because in failure comes the lessons. In the lessons comes the learning. In learning comes success. It is one thing I will say about you, John, and I’ve said this many times: you are a determined and consistent person. We’ve discussed it offline, and we’re not going to discuss it online because I don’t want to reveal anything about John’s business. However, I’ve heard you face plenty of challenges, and yet, you get up.

If you put in your business, what does that look like to chat? Talk about ups and downs every day, every week, every month, every year. That’s the one. However, I’d like to end on a happy note. I still think as long as you know the realities and you get a good mentor, get somebody to show you the ropes, and you’ve got a good work effort, and you get a plan of action, and I think you can still be successful in real estate. I truly believe that, but you have to know what you’re getting into.

A hundred %. And I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer.

No, you’re much more upbeat than I am.

I just want to say that in all the businesses I found a mentor, I was ultimately successful. The success grew as my knowledge grew. So of all the things we talked about today, for me, not for anybody else, not for John, I’m just telling you all that I, as a human being, Robert Newman, feel the number one thing that we talked about today was finding yourself a mentor because all the hardness gets less if you have somebody provide guiding guidance. And that could help a lot of you, such as how to knock on a door, what to say, and having somebody who has done it many times successfully. Anything that they want in return is almost worth it as long as it’s not servitude.

It must be. You must say it.

Yeah. All right. No further ado, ladies and gentlemen. We have thoroughly enjoyed this show. John and I are always grateful for the listening. If you’re on Spotify or Apple, please give us a thumbs up or leave a comment on those platforms. I’d love it if you did. Personally, I would make the world, the difference to me as a human. If you’d like to look me up, you can do so at inboundram. Com. If you’d like to schedule a consultation for some reason, you can. You can visit the About Our Services page to find contact information directly. Jon, how would you like people to reach out for all your information? Yeah, thanks, Rob.

Visit the mail-right.com website, explore our features, and discover what we have to offer. I think you’re going to be blown away. Then you can book a chat with me, and I’ll give you a demo. We can then see if our MailRight is right for you, and I’m pretty sure it will be. Back over to you, Rob.

Beautiful. Well, that’s been our show for today. We hope that if you’re a new agent, you enjoyed it. If, for some reason, you’re a team leader or someone else who isn’t a new agent, we hope you’ll pick up some gems to share with your new team members. God, I would love it if you just tell John and I that and send us a little note or leave a comment somewhere. That’s it. We appreciate it. Take us offline.

Discover proven Instagram lead generation strategies for realtors in 2025. Turn followers into clients with content tips, hashtags & conversion tactics.

In this show, we explore innovative strategies for realtors to leverage Instagram as a powerful lead generation tool in 2025. From crafting engaging content to utilizing advanced features like Reels and Stories, we offer actionable tips to elevate your online presence. Discover how to connect with potential clients effectively and build a thriving real estate business. Instagram potential.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 488 of the Mailright Show. We’re so excited. We have such a great show for you today. We have conducted extensive research. We have some major updates. If all you do is listen to podcast, then we’re going to drop some new knowledge on you today. Today, we’re going to discuss one of my previously least favorite subjects, but I’m becoming increasingly excited about it in 2025. That is Instagram: how to generate leads from Instagram, and what’s changed with Instagram that affects you. Even if you’re a long-time follower of mine for SEO, this update actually includes SEO information that you will need to plan your strategy for 2026 effectively. With no further ado, we’re going to jump into it. But before we do, my magnificent, magnificent partner in crime for this podcast. He is, as usual, the one who found this subject, does the work. He is an experienced podcaster. He is a brilliant individual and an honest businessman. Without any further ado, John, take it away.

Yeah, thanks for that. A bit like you, you’ve got to be a bit tough in business, but I can look in the camera and say I’ve never ripped anybody off. I don’t like somebody trying to rip me off. I’ll be a hypocrite if I… I can honestly say to you, folks, I’ve always tried to treat people the way I would want to be treated. I haven’t always succeeded, but I make an honest attempt.

Can confirm, everybody. Can confirm. John, I would quantify it as tough but fair.

Yeah, I can be a bit awkward. I can be a bit awkward when I want to be, but I don’t try to take advantage of people. So I’m the joint founder of Mail-Right.com. We’re CRM. We build really nice-looking websites on WordPress. We offer a range of starter websites that you can get up and running quickly. We also offer a number of other digital tools in one excellent value package. Go over to mel-right. Com. Have a look at what we’re offering. I think you’re going to be impressed. And book a chat with me, and we’ll see how we can move your business forward. Back over to you, Rob.

I’m the founder of InboundREM. We’re an SEO company that specializes in inbound marketing for realtors, and we’ve been up to a lot of interesting things. However, we’re ending 2026 with a bang. John and anyone who’s a long-time listener will know that I don’t usually use our podcast to provide many updates. Today, I’m going to change that. We are launching two new huge products and services, one of which we’ve been working on for three years. It is a branded SEO site for brokers in large teams, competing with companies like Sierra Interactive and Real Estate Webmasters. We’re in the final stages of a three-year beta with a top-tier broker in the country. We are really excited to be able to release. It’s going to work as both a search site and an SEO site, which was previously something that was very difficult to achieve. Additionally, we’re introducing a new service. We’re going to establish another company called Video Shark. Video Shark is going to spin off our video editing and SEO optimization services. We’re going to compete with services like Go High Level and similar companies that offer all-inclusive, done-for-you video packages.

We’ll edit, provide you with the script, and conduct keyword research. All I have to do is sit in front of the camera and talk. It’s super cool. My early beta has been widely well-received by agents. If you’d like to sign up for the beta or learn more, visit inboundrem. Com, and you can find more on our services pages or follow me on YouTube, which you can find using inbound R-E-M as a search term in YouTube. All right, without further ado, though, that’s not why most of you are likely here, to hear me and John talk about our respective companies. You’re probably here to see if we really do have some wisdom to share with you today. I’m going to do something that is different on this show. I’m going to say instead that John usually draws inspiration. He includes the inspiration in his show notes, which you can find on the mail-right. on his website when he posts to it. I think it’s essential that we acknowledge at least one of the guys this time, as they have been a constant source of inspiration for John and for us. That’s Jimmy Burgess.

If you’re unfamiliar with him, visit his YouTube channel and subscribe. He’s a brilliant individual with extensive experience. He is a working real estate broker. He recruits, he trains. He really probably provides more value through his various media channels than anybody that I know of. I think you should follow him and investigate him. Today, though, we’re going to riff off an article that he did, or actually, he and a few other people did, talking about Instagram. We’re going to add our own thoughts to some of his notes, and I’ll also include a number of thoughts about the comments made regarding how Instagram has changed, particularly in relation to SEO. Our first subject up for today is Well, actually, you know what? One last thing on the introduction, because I actually want to introduce this idea. Instagram used to be not particularly relevant for SEO because it couldn’t read the website’s content. Well, in July of 2025, that changed. Instagram made the entire website readable by Google. Now, what you’re seeing is that in the search packs, the video search packs on hundreds of thousands of real estate-related searches, you’re seeing Instagram videos come up.

So, all these people who previously did not have access to that traffic now do have access to it. The competition for video has grown, partly because Instagram is now in the mix. Some of you, and many of you as realtors, were already involved with Instagram before you got involved with YouTube. Some of you are not even involved with YouTube. As a result, your Instagram channel has the opportunity to be at least 2-3 times more valuable to you, making me change my recommendation from Instagram as a ‘can-do’ to a ‘must-do’. YouTube still offers numerous advantages. I would still start there and use Instagram as a secondary posting place if you’re listening to my advice. However, Instagram can no longer be considered a non-priority tool. If you have a strategy, it should be to post the video first on YouTube, as you can optimize and categorize it more effectively than on Instagram, then post the same video to Instagram. And let the people who use these platforms appreciate your work on whatever platform they’re comfortable using. Those are my comments as we do the intro.

Why don’t you, if you have some comments, you can add them, and then you can intro into the first subject that you selected for us to talk about?

Yeah, sure. Thanks, Rob. Yeah, I totally agree with you. But the SEO experts that I regularly listen to when I’m walking and I consume a load of content, they’re all saying that video on all these social media platforms, Google’s indexing, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube. Obviously, YouTube is something you I would really aim at because it’s owned by Google, but they’re indexing all these platforms and they like video because video, especially a certain type of video that has you on it, or it can’t be duplicated that easily. So it’s becoming more and more important in search and in branding and putting you in front of the clientele that you need to get. I really think this is a really important episode, Robert.

So do I. I want to add one thing. Every day, John, I get clients calling in to me and the amount of realtors that have basically said various things that to the effect of, I’m just not comfortable on video. It still happens every single day. I can’t say this to the client directly, but I’m going to say it to you guys and John. I’m going to tell you, if you’re a salesperson, how is the machinations of the mind leading you to say, I can get in front of a human and talk about the service that I provide, but I can’t do it in front of a camera? The leap of logic there is so minute. I don’t even understand.

If I can butt in for just a second, I totally agree what you’re saying, but looking in front of a camera and talking straight to it initially does come across a little bit odd. But I can assure you I wasn’t comfortable when I first done it. But you get over it. You really get over it. And after you’ve done about four or five videos, it starts to diminish quite a lot. And after that, you really just get used to it.

And most importantly, it’s the medium, it’s the new door knock, it’s the new phone call. It’s the new everything in the world that we live in, ladies and gentlemen. It’s the new mechanism to sell yourself. It is more effective than anything else you can look at by miles. And I know you all have heard that before, but now it’s becoming It’s effective and necessary for all the reasons that John said, branding, awareness, recognition, and lead generation, which, God, I get so tired of people asking me about lead generation and then saying, No, I don’t want to do video. It’s like, Well, that’s the number one lead generation tool in the world right now for real estate. Why even call a lead generation provider if you’re not willing to take the steps on your end to tackle the discomfort? All right, without any further ado, John, number 2, be the local digital info mayor of your area. Now, again, Jimmy Burgess’s video that talks about this does some cool things where he showed some clips from realtors who do this thing. If you’re interested in actually seeing the videos, go to his channel, subscribe, and look for a four-month-old video where he’s talking about Instagram.

It has 5,000 views when I looked at it this morning. What’s your take on that?

Well, we’ve also banned on about this for over three to four years, haven’t we? About being your digital mayor, being the information source. But is it Jimmy? But I think we can, with credibility, say that we’ve talked a load about it as well.

Long before Jimmy did, technically.

Yeah, probably. I don’t know. But we both, you and me and him, have talked it a lot. You’ve got to be seen as the resource, the person that knows what’s going on in your town, in the part of the city that you’re doing business in, in the region. You’ve got to be seen as the information resource, somebody that knows what’s going on and knows a few people. You got to really show that it’s just a great content to do videos about and plug other people people, restaurants, other people, services, and then DM them and say, I’ve made this video. Those people are going to feel warmth towards you if you’re plugging them. Most people, I would have thought, Then I think they’re going to help to promote your videos, your content. I just think you got to try and become what I call the digital mayor of your area.

The examples that were used, and they were good ones, was there was a new shopping mall opening or something of that nature, a new development. The young lady was there promoting it, and her video got shared 11,000 times. This is something that Jimmy pointed out. Now, when you’re present at community events, whether that’s the unveiling of a new stadium, a ribbon cutting ceremony, you do something that I think people forget. The core of the internet is efficiency and convenience. And just like all of you listening right now, most of you are not going to go check out Jimmy’s channel. You’re here listening already. You really don’t want to do the extra steps, and I don’t blame you, time is a premium. That convenience is what being a mayor does. You go out, you do the hard work, you get involved in the community so your customers don’t have to, but they will love the fact that you did it for them. They will feel connected by extension, which is what gets them to call you. They also might want to feel connected by extension. And so calling you, like if you’re at a… I love big community events like football games.

That’s big in Texas, that’s big in California. You go to a high school football game, you record a little bit of it, and you say, By the way, the Tiger’s won. And what did you do, everybody? Well, you appealed to every single parent that has anybody, even the vicinity of high school age. That’s probably 20% of most of your audience right there. You make them feel involved. In some small cases, you might even tell somebody what the spirit of the school is like that they’re thinking of putting their kid in. This is why this is such an incredibly powerful tool for all of you to use. But as usual, John and I have spent a huge amount of time in drawing the subject, and we have six beautiful subjects to cover for you. We’re going to move on to the next one, which is, should be a no-brainer. But I’m going to intro this one because there are four or five conversion subjects that are universal across the country. There’s two that are really, really big. One of the two is this subject right here. Real estate still continues to be a premium in most markets.

In other words, there’s not enough inventory. New inventory to any market is always something that most people get excited by, even if it’s just curiosity. Coming soon videos tends to be one of the best way to drum up inquiries because you can oftentimes say, This won’t be here for two years, but if you have any questions about the community, I’ve got some insider track stuff from the developer, some documents that I haven’t been able to post online. You can call me, and if you want to know what the real skinny is, I’ll give you timelines and what we think the pricing might be and everything else. But since the developer hasn’t committed that to writing yet, I can’t post it on my channel. This is a very clever reverse psychology way to get calls. It’s working for tons of my clients actually getting phone calls, actually getting people into their lead funnels and things like that. This property soon thing is brilliant, John. So good that you listed it. What were you thinking when you did?

I think it’s a classic, isn’t it? Properties that are coming soon. You don’t want to give too much info. Really, you want to set up a landing page or something. So They’ve got to go and then you’ve got a chance to get their email because that’s the main thing, isn’t it? Try and get their name and email. Don’t give too much away. But you can do a video of the house and not say, Well, if you want more details, look in the comment, and there’s a link where you can get all the info. It’s just a great way. That’s the great thing of being in real estate, everybody’s interested in it.

So true. Now we’re going to go to break. When we come back, John and I will do our best to cover the remaining four subjects, the four ideas, the four things that we pulled from these videos. For once, I can actually say the word we because I actually reviewed all the material he sent over. So really excited to get into it. I’m not going to do the same drum beat that I have been quite the same way. I’m just going to say, listen, if you’re listening on Spotify or iTunes, be really helpful to us if you liked or commented on the show or shared it with people so that we can continue to get our valuable, what we think is valuable insight into the hands of the people that need it. Without any further ado, we’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We’re coming back from break on episode number 488, which is how realtors can use Instagram to get leads in 2025. We’ve been really excited about this subject. Instagram has new relevance in the world of real estate because Google is indexing it as of July of this year, the end of July this year, so the last couple of months.

That means a lot more exposure for videos, triple-purposing your videos now in terms of being able to use one video on YouTube, one video on Instagram, and have There’s two chances to rank the same video. It’s a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful opportunity. Really exciting for realtors because Instagram has always been relevant, but now it’s super relevant. We’re going to continue down our list of ideas for videos that you can make in case you happen to not be making them or an idea for those of you who already are. John, why don’t you take us away?

Yeah, well, it’s new builds, new homes. I think if you’re in the real estate business, you know the last couple of years, getting in with the national, regional builders, it’s been a sector that a lot of savvy real estate professionals, it’s really been a life boat for them because the regionals and the nationals, they’ve been discounting heavily, offering interest rates, inducements, cash inducements, all sorts of inducements. You see that in the big builders quarterly results, the packages they’ve been offering in certain markets, like Florida, Texas, especially, and other areas of the US, not in every area, but a lot of them. The agents that have linked up with these builders and particular developments, it’s been very beneficial. But if you even haven’t got a relationship, and a lot of these builders are open to being approached, doing videos is still a good idea. It will still get you in front of your audience, and then it probably will make it easier for you to get in the door with one of these builders. What do you reckon, Rob?

This idea about builders works really well for SEO, because weirdly, while every real estate agent out there understands, especially those of you in Texas and places that have a lot of building going on, and there’s a few markets like Arizona, Texas, certain places in the Pacific Northwest are even seeing an explosion in new development. Guys, let me tell you, these builders are terrible at SEO. When you do a review on a video and you mention the builder by name, ranking these videos and oftentimes getting in front of searches that have hundreds or thousands of people is easy. You can adopt all of their customers because the one thing that, not all, but most builders don’t do is they don’t really have high caliber sales representation in their facility because they paid somebody a salary. That person sits in a model home at best, and most don’t even have that. Most model homes sit empty. There’s somebody that sits there and distributes literature, maybe at the front of a huge master plan community, and oftentimes not even that. Here you have all these brand new homes where the builder magically expects them to get sold. If you adopt them by video or something of that nature and get out in front of all the people making your inquiries, it’s very easy to then turn around and also build a relationship with the developer saying, I’ve already got the number one video for Green Meadows, and I’m already getting probably 30% of your inquiries.

Why don’t you give me a deal or special access? You can figure out what the negotiation package is. But I have agents doing this, John. It’s insanely successful. For those of you who are curious, go to homesoffortbend. Com, and you’ll see where I have agent who’s 30% of his revenue, I think, is coming from these new developers in the middle of his best year ever. Because when everybody was going left, we weren’t right. We just stuck with new inventory in his area. We stuck with building relationships with developers. As everything else slowed down, that picked up, and his income has continued to grow. Having a little bit of a diversification in your business, if you don’t, is a good idea. All right, just sold video. My goodness, In terms of credibility establishment and understanding what psychology really is with your end users, there’s nothing better than this. This is a case study of somebody who’s already used you or done something with a home and experienced success. Success for them. It doesn’t matter. It should be a de facto thing that all realtors are competent. The reason that these videos are so important is the sad fact is that most aren’t.

That’s just it. Eighty % of the industry gets bad reviews. I’m not making that up. Eighty % of the industry does not get anything above a three-star review when they do a transaction. So if you are one of the few agents that’s doing four and five-star reviews every single time you work with a client, there’s one really great way to make sure that people see that. Get a client on a video talking about the process, not just, Oh, yeah, great realtor. Call Jane. No. How long did you work at this? What was it? Was there any hurdles? Did you have to redo financing? Did you have to step into other There are areas everybody knows, all of you know, that a realtor ends up doing nine people’s jobs when you do it well. You do the mortgage guy’s job sometimes. You do the other agent’s job because they don’t give you access when you need access. I can go on and on. The only way for you to not sound like a tool is to get your customer to share all the little things that you did in order to make the transaction go through.

That’s my thought. I love this. I love it’s on the list? What’s your thoughts, John? Number 5.

I think combining it or having a separate little video where you have the person giving a great testimonial, but having other videos that explain some of the challenges. If you were helping somebody buy a house or you’re helping somebody sell their house, what were the challenges? How did you overcome them? It’s just a great opportunity to prove your competence, that you really help your clients. It’s just so powerful, isn’t it, Robert?

It really is, which plays really well into, John, which I feel like you may have stuck this on the list for me, which is number six. It It’s number 5, actually, isn’t it?

Who am I?

Number 5, yeah. No, you entered number 5 twice, so it’s number 6, technically. Who am I? Videos, The Hero’s Journey. Okay, so ladies and gentlemen, there has been one since the days of the early Greek storytellers, such as the Odyssey, by Homer, and similar works, which we’ve all been taught in school. There’s been one story type that has always captured the imagination of the audience and been wildly successful, including, by the way, the story of Jesus, for those of you who are religious. It’s called The Hero’s Hero’s Journey. Basically, it can be simplified this way. You go through hardships, work hard, struggle, and overcome challenges. Then, after you’ve overcome those challenges, they refine and define who you are as a person, and with that refinement in place, you go on to experience success. That’s the Hero’s Journey, wildly summarized, but it is the Hero’s journey, and it is an amazingly effective storytelling tool. I’ve used it many times. I connect with people all the time through My Hero’s Journey, which is relatable to the founder of a company, such as a high school dropout. John, I’ve always talked to him about using his Hero’s journey because he definitely has one, but it’s not mine to share on this video.

However, for those of you who are curious, you should visit his website and check out his bio, as he has also had a remarkable Hero’s Journey to get to where he is. So that’s my What are your thoughts on number 5? What are your thoughts?

I think people are interested in why you got into real estate. Obviously, people are not foals. They know that you got into real estate to make a good, to make living, and hopefully a really good one. But they’re also interested. It’s not normally the sole reason. To be successful in real estate, you have to like I think. I think part of you has got to like it because here’s a tough game. It’s really strange hours, can be very emotional, very demanding. You’ve got to like the industry and you’ve got to like property, I think, to really sustain yourself with the tremendous ups and downs you’re going to have as a real estate professional. They’re going to. It’s going to be tremendous ups and downs, isn’t there, Robert?

They really are. As with most professions, but to be fair, real estate is one of those… I do have to add this comment. It’s an industry of exceptional highs and exceptional lows. Every industry struggles. But real estate is cyclical. Agents, when you’re doing your job right, oftentimes go uncommented upon. Everybody wants to talk about how much money you’re making. When you’re doing your job wrong, everybody wants to scream from the top of the rooftops, including Zillow and every other company you do business with. It’s exceptional highs and exceptional lows, but it’s still one of the very few professions without a four or eight-year college degree, where at the very top of the scale, you can make millions upon millions of dollars. I do have clients who do that, so I say they are rare, but they are out there. All right. Now, this is probably… I love the fact you close with this, John. Thank you so much. I understand that we’ve mentioned it a couple of different times, and I’m going to take a little bit of largesse here with the subject, and I’m going to say to all of you that the relevance of Google indexing Instagram cannot be understated.

This is a massive thought shift by Zuckerberg, and it aligns with everything that everybody here cares about, such as AI, because in order for large language models to learn, they need something to learn from. Facebook and all its environments have been closed off, whereas Google’s indexes are readable by other search engines, tools, and search bots, whereas Facebook was not. Obviously, Zuck, looking into the future, said, Shoot, we’re going to get left behind in the AI race where nobody can access any social data because we control all of the social data. If we want to be included in large language model learning, we should add our websites to the index. That’s exactly what they did. It’s actually one of the very few sharp moves that I feel like I’ve seen Zuckerberg make. It’s a personal opinion. Don’t read too deeply into it. I’m going to say it was a really sharp move, though. It also means that, theoretically, these new social platforms can be used if Zuckerberg made any agreements with any of the other big tech companies that he’s going to maintain access for X amount of time, it would make sense that all of those other tools, like Google would then put their scientists on how to use that social data in a relevant way.

They have already sidestepped Zuck, Instagram, and Facebook, which Zuck also knows, because they did it using a logarithm that referenced Chromium data, the browser. They stated that mentioning the name is a ranking factor, which can be seen in Chrome. If you do a search, now they can’t see anything after you arrive at the social platform. They can see how many entrances and exits there were. That data is not protected. Google controls it. Zuck started to realize that they already used a branding, a logarithm inside their ranking factors, without ever getting access to his websites. And thus he said, ‘Shoot, I’m probably doing myself more harm than good.’ I would be saying that, what’s the point? They’re already using the entrances and exits as a ranking factor. So now with an added database, I would be absolutely flummoxed if all of these data companies didn’t, which is all Google is, is data company. I would think that they would now figure out a way to leverage your branding information on those platforms more. If nothing else, how many followers you have, and they might even start to measure engagement and things of that nature.

It’s really powerful that Instagram is now relevant and twice as powerful for you as a realtor, because it was always relevant for generating leads and maintaining a following. A great place for people to view listing information and educational resources related to real estate. I follow many channels solely to browse through their listings. It’s real estate porn. I’m so sorry. I know that word is a little contentious, but you know it really is because you just sit there and look at things you can never have. And go, God, that’s beautiful. Look at that castle in Idaho. Wow. You’re never going to go to Idaho. But what a castle, right? That’s my thoughts, John.

All right. I’ve got nothing much more to say. I think it is a really good roundup of that. I think it’s time to wrap it up, Rob.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, realtors of all ages and stages of your careers, we deeply appreciate you listening to the show. John and I can both be reached for consultative services. You might be able to convince one of the two of us to talk to your team of brokers and agents. It’s not something I mentioned much, but somebody did recently come through the door and asked me to do that, and they do follow the podcast. It was somebody who follows me on other channels as well. However, I found it an interesting concept. Now I’m going to give a talk in front of 150 agents. It’s always possible to get us to do that. So please keep that in mind. I am going to say if you’d like to reach out to me, you can do robert@inboundrem. Com. That is the word Inbound, RabbitEdwardMichael. Com. You can also check out the website and get tons and tons of good data on whatever you want to know about real estate marketing in general. Jon, over to you.

Yeah, go over to the mail-right.com website. Take a look at our features and see what websites we build. I think you’re going to be really impressed with the total package. Then you can book a demo with me, and we can discuss it further to see how Melright can assist you. Back over to you, Rob.

All right, beautiful. We are done, ladies and gentlemen. Congratulations. You now know everything there is to know about Instagram. No, I’m just kidding. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate it, John. When you’re ready, take us offline.

Transform your real estate business with the best tech for real estate agents in 2025. Top tools, apps & software to close more deals faster

In this insightful show, we explore the top tech tools and innovations that will transform the real estate industry in 2025. From cutting-edge virtual reality property tours to advanced AI-driven market analysis, discover how these technologies can enhance your efficiency and client engagement. Whether you’re a seasoned agent or just starting, understanding these trends is crucial for staying ahead.

Introduction

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Welcome back to the Mail-Right podcast, ladies and gentlemen. If you’re listening on Spotify or iTunes, please do us a review.

Just one thing. I don’t think it’s going through your normal mic.

Testing, testing.

Yeah, I might have been, Ron. Sorry. Where’s he going?

I’m right here. I was just looking at… I was trying to look at my screen. I don’t have my glasses on. Yeah. Are you ready yet?

Yeah, go until you can, Dan.

Testing, testing. You sure?

Yeah.

All right. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the MailRight podcast. Today’s episode is number 487. We’re going to talk about some tech and services for real estate agents that we think are relevant in 2025 that can improve your business. We’re going to focus on some AI stuff, and we’re going to cover a lot of really cool ground. John has done some really great research, so we’re looking forward to sharing this with you. Now, before we get started, if you’re on iTunes or Spotify, I would love it if you could do us both a favor and leave us a review. Give us a like. If you can do nothing else. Stop listening to this show right now. Just give us a thumbs up, okay? Especially if you’re a repeat visitor, you already know what John and I deliver, which is a lot of great information for new and old real estate professionals alike. Without any further ado, though, in case you do not know who the man, the wonder, the legend that is John Denwood is. He is one of the top WordPress podcasters. He has had a show there for a long time.

He is He’s the founder of this show. He is the founder of a real estate tech product called Mail-Right.com. It is, well, it’s not the name of the product, but it is the MailRight service, and it is an excellent service for those of you looking for a more budget solution to some of your real estate marketing and branding needs. Without any further ado, John, take it away and let people know who you are in your own words.

Oh, thanks, Rob. I’m the joint founder of Mail-Right.com. We’re CRM. We also make some lovely-looking WordPress sites for real estate agents using WordPress and a lot of other digital tools at an affordable price. Back over to you, Rob.

All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, today, we’re just going to jump right into it. We’re talking about apps that can help your business. First on the list today was Banana Nana. It’s funny because John linked the… I was going to tell him that I had only seen one video on Nana Nana. It’s super funny because in the one video I watched, he linked this reference for the subject. I’ve actually watched the video, but I watched it before you even popped it up as a suggestion to talk about. I actually can talk about this one, at least with the same degree of accuracy as anybody who’s ever watched this video. But why don’t you jump in and say, Because when I went through it, it didn’t occur to me to talk about it. I’d like to hear your thoughts on the use cases for Nanobanano in the context of a real estate agent. I thought of a few, but I wasn’t sure that they were big enough use cases to actually bring up on the podcast.

Well, I think it’s part of the Gemini AI tool suite that Google provides. Most of it’s free. But Ano Banana seems to be a really fantastic AI platform for making images through prompts and videos for social media and other usage. I think a lot of people are saying it’s probably on one of the better ones now. Crock does a pretty good job on X. If you got the Pro version of X and you get Crock, that does a pretty good job on imaging, but I think this is one of the better ones. I think it’s a pretty good product. Back over to you, Rob.

For the use cases, for those that don’t know, this is a tool, Nana Banano, is an image AI optimizer. The use cases that this gentleman showed were changing the color of shoes, eliminating backgrounds, and doing so very easily. This is minutes and doesn’t It doesn’t require editing skills at all. That’s the exciting part about it. The reason I was having a hard time trying to figure out how to apply it to real estate, and it would require think time, is because all the examples that I saw on this video were product-based examples, like a shoe or something like that. I was sitting here going, How would we use that? We could remove stuff, but with real estate, it’s trickier because you could remove a bush, you could remove a background, you could do all sorts of stuff if you wanted to. You could clean up a room from clutter. You could design a room. But there’s tools that are already AI that do that. I just gave it three seconds worth of thought, and I did think about, Okay, here’s some fast uses for nano-banano that might be interesting for a real estate agent trying to get attention to a listing.

You could change the color of a house fairly easily. It’s an outside thing, not an inside thing. There’s plenty of tools out there that do an inside interior design. I I haven’t personally seen one that altars the color of a house. You could say, theoretically, this is what the house would look like in beige, white, and brown, or whatever, three different colors, just in case anybody might be interested in repainting. That would be one thought that I have. Another thought that I would have would be the idea of adding amenities in the backyard. You could say, what would this backyard look like with a pool? And nano by nano might be able to do that for you. I am not 100% sure, but If there was a tool that would be worthy of trying, a nano-banano would certainly be it. The effort that would be involved is you get it in a nano-banano and you’d say, you upload a picture and you go, I would like to add a pool in the backyard and see what happens. All right? That’s it. All right, next on the list. Oh, by the way, two are beautiful, lovely users, listen, both John and I have Facebook pages and things.

I personally would be fascinated, though, if anybody does go out and experiment with Nana Banano, who’s a real estate agent, if you would message me and tell me what or if any use cases you had for it, I would be very interested in that information. I could return the favor in knowledge of SEO. I can definitely hold up my end of an information exchange. All right. Agent legend. I didn’t research this one, John. Sorry, I’ve heard of them already, though. So what What made you add this one?

It’s not an app, it’s not in AI, but I think it’s a reasonably cool service. Basically, any real estate CRM, as you know, any CRM, a simple one like Melright, powerful but simple to use, or something like Follow Up Boss, which has got a good interface, but it’s a complicated CRM system. Whatever one you use for it to be effective, you got to use it and you got to get the data out and you got to do something with the data. And a lot of agents struggle with that. Well, they provide a service at different levels where they provide somebody that will help you get the data out, the CRM, and also do something with the data from any CRM. The price starts at $99. I don’t think it doesn’t sound too bad to me.

I agree with you. All right, well, I don’t know much about Agent Legend. I’ve just heard of them. So again, I’m going to say this. This is probably the way that they’ve got it displayed, it seems like it’s another one of these chatpots that’s smart, that takes over a stream of conversation that is going to be somehow sent into an AI chatbot. Now, here’s what my personal experience with AI chatbots are, and I use them on my phone. I use them in numerous places for myself, personally, not for anybody else. For very simple, straightforward tasks I found them easy to use. I’ve just started to discover limitations on my phone AI because they don’t handle a lot of responses. If it’s a salesperson or somebody I don’t really want to talk to, they’re great. They just screen them and it’s no problem. If it’s somebody I know, it’s not good at all, and that’s a problem. Because I have to train it. I have to condition it to recognize these different circumstances.

Can I say something?

Sure.

I might be totally wrong here. I don’t think they are. I presume they were using offshore people in the Philippines to actually help with the data. But I might be totally wrong there.

They do have an AI chatbot thing on their homepage. You’re talking about Agent Legend right now, right?

Yeah, Agent Legend. But it’s got a chat on it, but I don’t think that’s got anything to do. Don’t see if it needs to chat. Yeah, I see what you’re coming. But I don’t think I might be wrong, I think it’s offshore.

Well, hopefully it is, because that would be much better for everybody if it was. Okay, so definitely check it out. I think this is the second time that John has brought up Agent Legend, and I think that it’s worth looking at if you’re looking for-Yeah, but would you agree with the crux of my argument?

It doesn’t really matter what CRM you use. Well, that’s the thing, use whatever CRM you sign up for. If you don’t use it, that’s a problem, isn’t it?

It is the problem. I think here’s why I remain quiet on issues of CRM and and basically optimization. Instead of improving efficiency overall, a lot of people, hundreds of thousands of people are going to buy these automated tools, which means that every person that is a decision maker like myself, I’m getting 20, 30, 40 calls a day easy on my phone right now. Easy. I’ve got to almost turn it off at all times that I’m not actively using it. The reason that I’m mentioning that is that if I feel that way, imagine that if you’re a real estate agent, there’s all these AI tools that say the second that you submit a lead somewhere, you show interest in a way that some system catches your information, all of a sudden, 50 different people are reaching out to you, 50 different AIs, and they’re not people, they’re systems.

Well, what are you going to have? You’re going to have AI systems blanking AI systems, blanking screening, AI system screen. In the end, nobody will be able to communicate with anybody.

Yeah, and the assumption here, everybody’s like, Our AI agent will act like a human being. For very simple conversations, they will. But not even ChatGPT sustains long threads of conversation with 100% accuracy. Keep that in mind. Eventually, no matter how good your AI is, you are going to have it fall apart if anybody starts talking to it. I don’t know about anybody else, John. Let me ask you a question. If I figure out I’m talking to an AI, I’m done. I’m out, 100% out. What about you?

Oh, yeah, I’m the same. But you’re full star. I had my local gas supplier, they got an awful AI-generated system. It’s one of the worst I’ve come across in a long while. I had a particular question on that, and in the end, I managed to fold the system and talk to a very I’m a pleasant individual, a human being, but I had a hell of a struggle. There’s been a couple other… Because I’ve been on the phone a lot more, I’m normally texting or on the website or something, but for various reasons, I’ve been using the phone a lot more. They’re everywhere. Offshoring is bad enough when they don’t really know how to answer your questions I’m not blaming them, but that’s frustrating. But obviously, we got a new level because old Benny, the founder of Salesforce, he’s recently sacked 4,000 of SELS4 Hulse’s sales agents. He halfed his sales department. Did that come on your radar about a week ago? He sacked 4,000 of them. I don’t know what their AI bolts are like, but I personally don’t think that’s a fantastic idea, but we will find out, won’t we?

We will, and that is a problem. That’s where my voice is going to be different than other people Because a big business’s increased towards efficiency is not necessarily smart for the small guy. I think more and more the distinction between big operations and small is going to be personalization, and personalization is going to have to come with some of your own time and your own voice. Now, I do believe strongly we can use AI in many ways to increase efficiency and save you time. I love the AI, like using a brand spokesperson that’s AI, that is you, that you’ve authorized in order to communicate messages, and you can type them in or audio them in and put up a video. Because as long as you at some point interact with the person in real life, in real time, I think there’s nothing wrong with that. If it’s you, you are the person who’s doing the talking. But boy, oh, boy, do not fall into this trap because I hate… I don’t know. Everybody I talk to hates it. I don’t know what the hell Mark Benoff is thinking. Maybe these were poorly performing people. Ever since Elon Musk started to fire people, everybody’s been getting very excited about it.

But moving on. All right, Render Forest. Now, this is something I’m excited about, but I haven’t had a chance to look at. I am going to look at it. I totally think it’s cool. It’s a very interesting concept. It takes the most popular video platform and adds a tool to it that might help your videos go viral. I love this from start to finish. What can you tell us about Render Forest, which is an AI video tool.

It does a lot more than that. It really does try and provide a digital hub for an entrepreneur or small team that’s looking for a cost-effective product for producing graphics, PDFs, white sheets, all sorts of things. But I was specifically looking for something because I do produce a lot of long form and medium length video, and I was looking for stuff for TikTok and Instagram to help me there, and it came up on my radar. They got a free level, and the light is 14. These are month-to-month prices. The light is $14, the pro is 39, and they got a business at 49. It’s quite competitively priced. But I was looking specifically at editing long-form video for TikTok, but I don’t know how good a tool is, but it came up when I was doing my research, but it offers a lot of logos, design graphics, it offers a ton of stuff. I was looking at a couple others. I was looking at Capecut, which is actually owned by TikTok, and Descript, but the one I probably will end up using is Opus Clip because… Oh, he’s gone. Are you there? Is he coming back?

I’ve lost Robert, folks. I will keep talking. There’s a lot of choice out there, folks, but try and edit video and put the titles on and do all the rest of it is quite time-consuming. I’ve given them some of One of the other ones that I have been looking at, Rob, around TikTok editing. Like I say, there’s about four or five I’m looking at, but it’s very hard to make a decision. I’ve talked to one friend that does a lot of video and does a lot of video for TikTok and for Instagram, and he does long form, but as a package, he uses Descript because he’s utilizing some of the other features of Descript, and it’s got a good TikTok short form editor. But he actually was Opus Clip, and he said he couldn’t justify spending the money on the Opus Clip, the pro-version, and having the Descript because he didn’t get enough value. But he actually said if you’re just looking for a short form video, Opus Clip is probably the better choice. But you got to look at them all and make your choice, really, Robert.

We really do. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to go to break. When we come back, I am going to share my not very exciting opinion about this, and then I’m going to really, really, really add a lot of enthusiastic tones to our next review, which is CapCut. I don’t know that much about it. So once again, John is going to carry the weight like hermitus or whoever that guy was that pushed the rock up the hill for so long. Anyway, we will be right back. So long meaning for attorney. We’re going to be right back, and when we come back, we are going to to, hopefully, help you have some great ideas to propel your business in 2025. All right, stay tuned. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. You have Jonathan Dinwood and I, two amazing small business founders who are in the real estate marketing space trying to help you get your real estate marketing game accelerated and propelled. We really, really enjoy helping real estate professionals. It’s one of our missions, both of us. And so if you want to check out our website, mail-right. Com, that would be John’s.

And you can learn all sorts of things about all sorts of platforms. You do the same inboundrem. Com. And there’s one vast major difference is price point. We’re a little more expensive, but we focus on long term SEO. And John is a great guy for digital advertising, fast results, fast traffic into websites and things like that. Those are our two sponsors for the show, by the way, InboundRM and Mailhypher. Right. Thank you for listening to all of that self-obligatory self-promotion. We always appreciate it. Now, moving on, we’re going to talk to you a little bit about, literally, John’s intro to it. It’s amazing AI video make it into a… I’ve heard of it like a lot. So this one I know should be good. I just don’t know that much about it. Tell us about CapCut.

Well, I did talk… I have already talked about it after you dropped out. We lost you for a little while. So we really need to go on to Bonjuro.

Okay, so sorry about that. Bonjuro. All right, let’s talk to us a little bit about Bonjuro.

Well, it’s a bit like it’s a competitor to Bonbon. It seems to be pushed by a number of really well-known influencers, but it’s the same concept, roughly. That’s what I got from it. I don’t know what you’re going to get. But a slightly more competitive price. They got a free level, you got a starter level at 25, a pro at level 39 and a growth at 99 per month. The prices seem quite clean, but that’s how I saw it as a competitor to Bonbon.

Well, I was just talking to a real estate assistant. Bonbon is getting… You can link videos inside emails these days. Really what Mondro seems to be… I mean, a two-second look tells me that one of their main calls to action here it seems to be how many integrations that they’ve built out, which is if you knew tech, that just means they’ve probably gotten a zap. But it does take time. You have to talk to all these companies, having a 50 to 100 book of partners for a video tool as long as you have a decent video editor and an email thing all wrapped up into one, there’s some value. But definitely, Bum Bum has been feeling the pressure of the age that we’re in. We’ve interviewed the CEO. I’d love to have him back on at some point and talk to him about how they’re responding to that. But in the meantime, from a thousand feet away, it looks like they’re going to get edged out by competitors like this. But I haven’t tried them. I don’t know them. We do have a relationship with Bombom, so keep that in mind if you decide to check them out.

All right, next on the list, Linked Helper. Oh, I love this concept. But once again, before you even go into explaining what you know of it or what your research revealed to you, I got to tell you guys, I’ve I get so much spam on LinkedIn. I don’t bother logging anymore. I log in and every time I log in, John, I have 75 people in my direct messages. I don’t know how all these people have that paid version of LinkedIn, but they do, or there’s a way to break it. I don’t know. Go ahead.

All right. It’s these terrible We’re marketers, isn’t it? We are marketers, so we’re the problem, aren’t we, Rob? But if you’re B2B, and part of my other business is B2B, I have a lot of small clients, then some medium, and I have some very large clients, and I would like to get some more medium clients. I’ve actually hired a friend of mine that was an ex-client of mine, and She’s going to help me with some targeting of certain industries. I’ve been looking at doing it through LinkedIn because over the last couple of years, I’ve built up a lot of connections in associations and higher education, other things for my other business through LinkedIn. I was looking at some of these tools that do help you do the outreach to my people that I exist in my LinkedIn who have agreed to connect with me and to get other people to connect with me. I was looking at a number of tools, Link Helper seems to be very competitive price. I personally have chosen a slightly higher price tool, which is sales robot. I’ve chosen sales robot. To, and we’re going to, with her help, we’re going to be starting the campaign next month and see how it goes.

If you want to do outreach through LinkedIn, there’s about three to four of these tools out there at different price points, and there’s a lot of conflicting info. But I think if price is a key feature, Link Helper is very competitive and it will do the job. If you’re looking for more features and something a little bit higher in functionality, I think sales robot is a good… Because some of the competition above sales robot starts at 200 a month, and that was a little bit too keen for me. That’s my A bit of how this might help people.

So these tools, I just went through sales robot really quickly and looked at the people that were leaving reviews. That’s oftentimes what I do. And they’re all at what would easily be identified as medium to larger size businesses. Okay, Prospecta, Alphabets, these are all people that have the ability to spend $200, John, like it’s a forgettable amount of money.

If you go to the YouTube channel, he’s got a lot of interviews with smaller entrepreneurs like you and me, the actual founder of Sales Robot. He’s got actually quite a good podcast on the YouTube channel where he interviews actual users and explains their business models. I’ve been quite impressed with that, actually, Robert.

You know what’s funny? They don’t even have a link to the YouTube channel off the actual website.

No, is He’s in his name. Yeah, it’s quite strange that is, but yeah, totally right.

Well, I certainly have an issue with that, but with the lack of decent UI or UX on their website, but whatever. I’m going to say that my message is an Indian guy. So obviously, outreach and cold outreach from India to America is a major, major occupation because the Something like 30% of the economy in India and about 30% in the Philippines runs off basically offshore. It’s a major industry. It’s actually the most of their industry. So when you start talking about getting a hold of people like me, any tool that you can do to do that is going to be helpful. Now, if you are me, having 75 messages, I don’t even bother to look anymore. I don’t think I’m alone. I don’t think I’m alone. When you’re using these automated tools, try to understand what you’re What’s it going to do with it. If I personally was headed in the direction, John, of saying, I can’t even begin to understand how, unless you’re a single agent, the people here are property management people and wholesalers. I could see both of those maybe working on LinkedIn, but not so much the wholesalers because you have to find people with distressed homes, and LinkedIn is probably not a platform for that.

Well, I thought there could be certain circumstances where Yeah, but I agree with you. Linkedin is business to business, not business to consumer.

If you’re looking for that, I can think of a few people that might be helpful, too. But for instance, many of my clients have relationships with developers. The problem is the developer pool is very small. It’s not worth using an automated tool to reach out to 15 people. But if you’re nationwide and you’re dealing with either HOAs or developers, then a tool like this could be incredibly helpful to you, whatever your profession is. At the point that you have a nationwide campaign on your hands and you want to talk to everybody all at once, I see the use case for sales robot. At that point, the job’s too big and it’s inefficient to hire a real-life human being. You have to go with AI, even though it’s making a deal with the devil, in my opinion. All right. The smart way to grow, darling local. You have a profile in the largest business The biggest directory on the planet, neglecting it cost you sales opportunities and top-line revenue every week. Okay, John, while you talk to us about darling local, I’m going to check out. I hate people who say this nonsense. I am part of about 100 directories and none of them carry the traffic to make it worth my time to optimize the directory.

Let’s see if this one is the exception.

Well, if it is, I see where you’re coming from because their verb reach on the fold. I don’t think it really communicates exactly what it is, because it’s more about your Google business profile and also getting a bit… It does a little bit what the Melright system does, which is get more reviews. You can import a list into Melright and it will send out an email with a link asking for a survey. If you give a good response, it will then ask you, it will take you or ask you to go to a Pacific social media property and leave a review. I presume, reading some of the other content on the page, that it does a bit of that as well, and it was recommended by a couple of people. But I agree with you, the Burbridge could be better, couldn’t it?

Yeah, it really could. This What is Manage Google Business Profile. I think that what you’re going to find here is, number one, I don’t know that I feel like this is really going to be… I don’t really know that this is going to be… I do proof, let’s do auto dealer performance, and I’m in here…

Well, I’m not saying… I think hiring you and your team would be a much better idea. But as you know, most small businesses is do nothing. I mean, literally do nothing. Apart, there’s been a few that I’ve been… It’s quite strange, actually, Rob, because obviously I live in a little bit of a tech bubble, but recently I’ve moved and I bought some property. I’ve been dealing with a lot of more spending money, Robert, on trades people and service people. There is a small group that really gets it. They’ve got a really good website and they’re using third-party systems to send you a quote to schedule an appointment, and they’re highly automated. Then there’s a larger group that don’t seem to get it at all. It’s been quite interesting to observe, Robert.

I’m going to say, ladies and gentlemen, about darling local. Listen, it looks like they’re just optimizing profiles and depends on the price, which is not available, but they are a small team that is very transparent. I can see who all the founders are. They’ve got a YouTube channel, they’ve got an Instagram channel, they’ve got a lot of customer testimonials. It seems like a legitimate business trying to do legitimate work. It’s all going to come down to what price they’re charging you. And the things that they’re focused on, to me, at least, are like local 101. All right? So anyway, let’s move on here to… Because we’re running out of time, I think. Quo bot and Blankist are the last two on our list. Jon, I’ve never even heard of Quoabot, so why don’t you take us away on that one, too?

It’s got a few tools there for a really good free program, and you can go for the pro. It’s a bit like Grammarly, but it does a lot more. It can identify AI content and rewrite it for you. It humanize it. It can find plagiarism, somebody is using your content. I use it when I want to take a tagline, and I can’t bother to spend the enormous time rewriting somebody else’s tagline. I ask it to rewrite it, but obviously you can use ChatGPT or a number of the other to do it, but it’s got a number of free things, and what I like about it is the free product is useful. It’s got obviously usage limits, but it’s not crippled. It works as extra tool with Grammarly, really.

Extra tool above Grammarly?

No, with Grammarly. Combining the two together.

That seems like a layered expense I would not be interested in, but I understand where you’re coming from.

I would say the free tool works really well. He’s been very critical of my choices today, hasn’t he? My beloved- Well, I think that my experience with AI is definitely different than yours, but we both know what the fundamental You have to use a lot of these tools, and I understand and respect that tremendously.

But my experience with the reason, what you’re hearing in my voice is the level of frustration that I have. I had it again today because one of my sales support staff members used AI to review a contract and then sent it without reviewing it. And now I have a major client of mine coming back because it involves one of the key fundamental elements of the contract that makes the contract sound completely different. So he’s coming back at me with heat going, this isn’t what we discussed. I’m like, how did you get this wrong? And it’s because they use the AI.

Well, yeah, they used it, but they didn’t check it. Yeah, there we go.

It’s not John’s choice, ladies and gentlemen. You use CRObot, right? Because of the AI demoniser.

I don’t pay for the paid version. I just use the free version. But I have a paid version of Grammarly. I always have that because it’s so useful for me. However, I use the free version of Quill Bolt, and some aspects of it are just a handy little tool that’s part of my browser’s tool set. On to the last one, Blanket.

Yeah, hit us with that.

Well, it’s just a fun one. It gives you five new things that you probably didn’t know a day ago. So, you go to it, and it has five new things to learn per day. Little quick thing. It’s just a fun little thing. I thought we would end the show with something fun and light, Robert.

I love that. You can definitely… Little tools like that, like Headway back in the day and other tools, like little tools that educate or provide value in unusual ways for really inexpensive cost, are definitely ways for real estate agents to look to entertain and engage their customers and their agents. It just depends on how big your team is. So I love that idea. All right, that’s it, ladies and gentlemen. That’s our list. We are going to tell you how to get hold of us. But before we do, you are now at the end of the show. And so if you’ve liked some of the stuff that we’ve talked about, or if your wheels are turning about an idea, or if we’ve given you a place to go and look at, I’m once again, just going to ask that you like the show or leave us a review on Spotify or iTunes or wherever you happen to be listening. Pretty pleased. It would mean the world to us, and it helps support the show without you spending any money or any time or calling John or me or doing anything else. All right, that’s it.

That’s all I got. If you’d like to see more of me and what I’ve got, what I say about SEO and the subjects the Inbound RIM focuses on, AI, SEO, those are my things, lead generation for real estate agents, you go to inboundrim. Com. Our client list is exploding right now because AI has taken off, and we got lucky, and we’re getting a lot of results from that. All right, John, over to you, sir.

Yeah, and come over to mail-right. Com. Take a look at what we have to offer. It’s a fabulous platform, and it is very affordable, and we love to serve you, so go and have a look.

Awesome.

All right.

Unlock the secrets to elevating your real estate business in our latest show, “Real Estate Agents: How to Get Found on Google Fast in 2025.” Discover cutting-edge strategies to enhance your online visibility and attract potential clients. We delve into SEO tactics, effective keyword usage, and the importance of local listings. Don’t miss out on the opportunity to stay ahead in the competitive market.

Robert, I got these ideas from you, buddy “Neal Patel”

Vlad Ivanov – Search Gap Method website – https://searchgapmethod.com/

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s for episode number 485 of the MailRight podcast. That’s right, that’s right, that’s right. You found one of the top 100 real estate marketing podcasts that exist. If you’re on Apple or iTunes or wherever it is, just hit that Click on the link button, smash it a little bit. John and I would deeply appreciate it. Now, today’s show, which we’re super excited about, is Real Estate Case Studies That Win Clients, an Inbound marketing strategy I have used to tremendous success and results over the years. Before we get into that, though, before we start to tell you all the awesome, amazing ways you can use case studies, let’s let John tell you the awesome, amazing things that he’s up to and who he is so that you get used to the English voice as part of this podcast.

Thanks, Rob. I need to brighten it up. It’s been a rough day, hasn’t it? But I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We’re a fabulous, easy-to-use CRM AI-generated website builder and a load of other great tools, all in one really cost-effective bundle. It starts at around $49 to month. It’s just fabulous. Let’s go back over to you, Robert.

Beautiful. All right. My name is Robert Newman. I am the founder of InboundREM. We are an SEO and AIO-first marketing company that focuses on websites that you own, results that you can control, and a higher ROI than you can find anywhere else. If you’re interested in any of that, go to Inbound REN and look under the services page, or just look at my bio video and learn a little bit more about me. Let’s roll right into this, case studies. I have conducted case studies and reviews as my primary method of generating revenue for the past 10 years. I bootstrapped Inbound REN. We are now at approximately $3 or $4 million in total revenue for nine consecutive years. The vast majority of people who contact me contact me based on case studies or reviews. We’ve used every strategy and technology that John has gone out of his way to design. There are many different types of these case studies that we can talk about. Now, John’s going to go into number one for you. Why don’t you talk to us a little bit about how it’s going?

Yes, I did update our shared calendar because I didn’t word it very well the first time, but I have now updated it. Tell a story where your client, not your brand, stars. I left out the star in my original notes. What I mean by that, now, obviously, it’s okay to talk about yourself if it directly is of interest, i. E, it shows your credibility, efficiency, and knowledge level, which will benefit the client. So any information about yourself that’s around those subjects, that’s fine. But anything else, the client’s not really interested. What the client’s really interested in is stories that they can relate to that show that you can solve a problem that they’ve got. That’s what they’re interested in. A lot of real estate I see online suggests that it’s fair to say, ‘I sold these many houses last year, I had this much, I made this much money.’ It probably does show competence, but if you take it too far, it just comes across as bragging, basically. I think there’s a certain level where it’s damaging if you take it too far. They’re more interested if you’re marketing to a particular niche and your top case studies relate to that particular niche and show that you solve specific problems that niche might have. I think that’s much more powerful.

What do you reckon, Robert?

I reckon that if anyone wants to see a case study that has not only generated twice as much business as the case study is about, but also has achieved this, It’s an incredible example of this. Go to southpasadinahomes. Com and look for the blog post titled 30% I Got My Client, 30% above Asking on a Teardown. The case study is incredible because the client takes a bit of time to explain how he managed to attract 15 investors, literally competing for a teardown. There was no overembellishment in the title. What he did was manually call all 15 of these investors, physically speaking, and he basically spoke with them. This is an area of specialty for him. He understood what he was looking for. He found two people with good plans that needed the area, the land, and understood the value he brought in his ability to work with the historical society in the area, as they were tearing down the home, which meant they could obtain the permits to actually do it. All of those dots connected, and then he explained how he started a bidding war between those two investors that literally took someplace. This was not a house, John.

This was spray-painted walls and floors that were falling apart, and all this different stuff in South Pasadena. The house should have been torn down from the gate, but it was still standing. He got somebody to spend $1.1 million instead of $735,000 on a property that they were going to have to tear down as soon as they bought it. It was incredible. It was incredible. Incredible case study. Explained exactly how he did it. Now, when you’re giving case studies, what you’re trying to do is put the person who’s reading the case study in the shoes of the story. That’s what you’re doing. That’s why it’s so important to tell a story where your client is the star, not your brand. You don’t talk about you. You talk about the circumstances and the work, and the result. And then that will sell you in a way that nothing else can, especially if it all happens to be true. I love storytelling case studies, especially when you work your ass off to get the case studies. Many of my reviews take years to receive, and clients must earn 10 times what they spent with me before I can ever post a review publicly.

So I’ve spent years getting them. So it makes it so sweet when you finally get it and they’re true. John, this is also something I’m incredibly hot on, which is create a familiar I’m curious to know where your source was for that because I go with like, marketplace.

I did a bit of research on this. I got about four or five resources. I think I got that one from the contentmarketinginstitute. Com. I can put the links into chat. I’m not sure if I sent the links to you, but I was doing research after I’ve sent you your email. But yeah, that’s where I got it from. Because I know it’s with the ones you do and the ones you write for people, you’ve got a structure and you do research online, folks. I don’t think… Well, maybe you know this, I don’t. Maybe there’s some science behind it, but I think it’s more based on experience, what’s worked and what isn’t. But I’m just surmising that. I don’t know if there’s actually any science behind structure. But if you’re going to put the effort in, it’s best to see online or go to Rob’s website, and he’s probably got some examples on there and have a structure that’s worked for other people because they’ve probably done the pain of testing it. What do you reckon, Rob?

There’s so much science. Human beings have been telling stories for thousands upon thousands of years. There is a lot of study that says that we’re psychologically wired to tune into certain stories. That’s why a lot of our global fables are literally almost the same. And yet culturally, those stories were told theoretically by completely different people, completely different generations, completely different times. Yet sometimes you look at them side by side and you say it’s the same story. It’s just a duck instead of a goose or whatever. And here’s the thing. That is because certain story structures resonate with humans. Hero’s Journey is the most common story structure.

You’re talking about Campbell in his book and archetypes. Do you know if there’s any… And I’m not putting that down at all because I attempted to read the book and I just couldn’t do it. I don’t actually find him a very engaging writer. I’ve tried, I’ve listened to it a bit, but I had to stop on that. But I think these archetypes and that there’s a lot to it. But I was talking about, do you know if there’s any structures that there’s real hard core scientific where they’ve done peer study and they’re compared to one control group with another? Or is it just based, which I’m not pooh-poohing because I do actually believe if you look at ancient ancient Greece or powerful stories, you’re totally right. They have a similarity, don’t they?

Like the Odyssey, Homer’s Odyssey, probably the most significant recorded version of a hero’s journey that’s ever existed. In very many ways, the first true revenge story and the first spaghetti western all wrapped up into one. When you start saying, Is there any research? Well, not in quite the same way that you’re talking about that. Campbell stole from Jung. Jung spent a lifetime documenting his research, but because Excuse me, guys. My bad. Because of the nature of his study, he was never able to publish numbers like Kinsey because he wasn’t doing studies. He was working with clients. Science. But he did so much work on establishing all of his dream recording, a psychoanalyst, when it came to journaling and things like that, he noticed similarities in the way that different people in different parts of the world, different cultures were journaling the same thing, which made him spark off and write a book called Man’s Symbols or something like that.

Yeah, I have read that. It’s the same problem. It might be just down to me, the same problem with Campbell. I have attempted. That’s the only one I could get my head around because it’s an autobiography, but I think that’s the one we’re talking about when I think he goes to Africa. But the other books he’s written, I can’t make head or tell of them, but I’ve been influenced by other writers, a British writer who did a couple of biographies on Yann called Anthony Store, and I’ve been influenced by those. But attempting to read Yung’s own stuff, I just had to give up. It just didn’t gel with me, Robert.

I swear by him. I’ve built a career around him.

I really like the ideas, archetypes and other things he talks about. But I’ve had to read other writers that have read extensively his material. I just couldn’t get my head around reading his stuff.

For everybody that’s listening to this show, if you get curious, you can go to YouTube and type in Jung, and you’ll get two or three AI representations that are doing an excellent job of taking basically Jung’s thoughts and taking out some of his He was clinical and a rambling writer. He is very hard to follow.

Okay? He is very hard to follow. Rambling, isn’t it?

Yes. I also had a hard time getting through his stuff. What I don’t have a hard time doing is there’s a lot of really great people who have… I don’t want to use the word dumbed down, but they got like cliff notes. They take the main ideas, throw it in the videos, and they’ve animated, and they’ve done all sorts of cool stuff. So if you want to know like Jung’s Red Book, his period, go just YouTube it, everybody, because it’s an excellent source to understand structure or storytelling.

Do you think, I think the other factor, he could speak reasonably good English, but he was writing in German, and it was translated from German to English. And I know they have great… The people that do these translations are highly educated and experienced, but I still think it’s very difficult difficult, especially when you’re dealing with a rambling writer like Yung, and it’s such a vast subject. There must be something lost in the translation, I would have thought.

Yeah, Definitely. All right. Well, listen, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to go to a break and then we’re going to come back. But the answer is yes, there’s lots of people that talk about structure and writing, and there’s a lot of great marketing copywriters who are quite brilliant. Seth Godin is I’m one of them, even though I’m not the biggest. I’m more of a fan of Jung than I am of Seth. But Seth is also a brilliant writer. He is very good at what he does, which is how he’s become so famous. There are many, many, many great places to go to copywriting. If you want to get somebody who’s good at digital blog writing, go to neilpatel. Com.

I’ve actually interviewed him, Rob. Neil? What?

Seth or Neil?

No, not Young. Seth. I’ve actually interviewed him. It was about six years ago, but I have actually- You make me want to cry.

I’m going to cry right now. How did I not get a chance to do that?

Well, it was on my other show.

You and this other show. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that’s John casually mentioning that he’s got one of the top WordPress shows in the world.

I would say it’s one of the most consistent. I think I’m on episode 978 It’s pretty good.

All right, we’ll be right. It’s beyond pretty good. If you haven’t tuned into it, check out W-Tonic, WPTonic. Com. It is a very big show. John gets lots of notable guests. He does incredible round tables. He’s got it posted to numerous channels. It is all things WordPress-related. If you’re going to build a website on WordPress, or you’ve already built one with me, checking it out is not such a bad idea. All right, we’ll be right back. Stay tuned. Sorry about all the coughing, man. I don’t know what’s going on.

It’s all right. I think we’re doing some good stuff.

We always do some good stuff. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s episode number 485, I am here with my fearless co-host, Jonathan Dinwood. He is famous for many things, but the thing- Blabbing?

Blabbing? He’s famous for just blabbing. I’m a hot and bothered to die. He’s I’ve been all over the place to die. Oh, dear.

All right. We’re talking, we just briefly mentioned the fact that… Because we haven’t mentioned it in a little while. It’s only fair to mention everybody that John runs one of the longest established, best-regarded podcast on WordPress. He was just telling me he actually managed to interview Seth Godin for that other show. Seth Godin is a legend. He’s saying, Here’s one of the people that you’d most like to meet in the entire world, Robert, and I met them. I don’t care about celebrities, but God, the luminaries in the marketing field, God, I wish I could meet some of them. Anyway, he met Seth Godin, which I find to be so cool. When we’re talking about case studies, the next thing to do is to make it visually appealing. How would you go about doing that, John?

Well, I think visuals are important I think video. I’ve been busy the last six weeks, and I’ve got about kept my writing up on my blogging and that. But especially in the age of AI, you’ve got to add video to it, you’ve got to add calls for action, downloadables. You’ve got to mix it up with good visuals as well. On most of the stuff I now produce, I put one or two videos, and I try and jazz it up, and that Google seems to like that. There’s a lot of people out there saying that articles are finished, blah, blah, blah. I don’t really believe that. I think the past year has been extremely turbulent dealing with Google. I’m not quite sure even that Google understands what they’re doing. They’ve been feeding it out. So there’s been a lot of updates. There’s been a lot of people that have seen their traffic collapse, come back, collapse again. It seems to be all over the place. I think the SEO experts that I listen to, there’s a group of podcasts that I listen to around SEO experts because I tend to walk a lot in morning and late afternoon.

And that’s when I listen to these podcasts. And I think it settled down a bit, but I think having good visuals, having engage, video, I think, and I notice with what you do on your own website with your team and what you recommend to your own clients is this, mix it up with video, have good graphics, have it visually appealing. I don’t know if I’m boring him, because when he starts typing, I don’t know if I’m boring Rob or- No, I just had to take some notes real quick.

No, you’re not boring me. Sorry about that. I had to respond to something on my screen.

They’re always after you, aren’t they, Rob? People, there’s always something to do, isn’t it, Rob?

Well, it just depends. Some of the time it’s actually people I actually have to pay attention to who I try to let everybody in my life know that from 2: 00 to 3: 00 PM Pacific Standard Time on Thursdays, I’m podcasting. And 99% of the people in this world respect that, except for the two people that come into my house and work on Thursdays, because I had the brilliant idea that I would do everything all on one day, and it makes so much sense on paper.

It does, doesn’t it? It does. But it doesn’t quite make sense, does it, when you actually try and do it, does it?

Yeah, it doesn’t. Because all of a sudden somebody’s like, Hey, I’ve got this thing. I’m about ready to buy for the work I’m going to do on your house. Do you need it?

It’s like- I do Thursdays on my busiest day because I try and get everything done on a Thursday.

Exactly. Well, in terms of trying very hard. You can do a lot of cool things, and it’s becoming cooler, faster because of AI. You can do lots of great visuals, use Midjourney for better thumbnails, use… Photoshop has jumped into the AI game, and I’m hearing from my team that their tools are actually pretty good. There are other tools that we use. We use Canva a ton to do compelling images.

Oh, yeah. Just a quick question, I don’t know if you heard of this new AI image editor from Google in their G Suite. It’s got a funny name. It’s got a really strange name. I ran out of time today. It came up on my feeds, and it’s supposed to be really, really good, but it’s got some weird name.

But I’ll look at it. I mean, I’m a big fan of Google, so we’ll have to take a look at the image generator. So one way or the other, we want to put something compelling, and compelling can be a lot of different things for your audience. My team does this really cool thing where they go through the videos, and as they’re editing them, they find the one frame, like this frame, for those that are watching, I’m like, somehow you catch me doing, and then- He does that after he’s talking to me, folks. Then they capture that and use it on the title. That’s where I think you could do something compelling. Today, as soon as we get down here, John, I’m going to do it. My next video is about how to essentially AI-proof your business, although that’s not the title I’m using. I’m using a cooler, more exciting title. That’s really what the subject is going to be. We’re going to have to do a cool thumbnail to go along with it. No doubt my team will take something where I’m justiculating wildly with my little lightsaber, and they’re probably going to use that on the thumbnail.

I think that it’s whatever the means that you have at your disposal to be creative, whether you’ve got a budget for Fiverr or Canva, or you have to use AI because that’s the time that you’ve got, and all you have time to do is put in a prompt, just make sure you do something. That would be my comment. All right, we’re down to the last one in terms of case studies. The last note here, and it’s a big one, though. You can do a lot of different formats of case studies. John, I’m going to jump into this. There are narrative case studies. There are descriptive case studies, as well as exploratory and explanatory case studies. Each one of these is different. Narrative is talking in the third person, or it can be where you’re explaining both sides at It’s also, by the way, narrative is oftentimes called storytelling, but it’s narrative. It’s like, and then this guy did this, and then the other guy did that, and then this guy did this, and then I did that, and it’s narrative. Descriptive is where it’s usually personal, really personal. You describe down to the last detail what happened.

The case study I referred to on southpasadinahomes. Com and Derek Vaughn, that was a descriptive case study. Exploratory case studies are what John and I do in terms of reviews. Exploratory is oftentimes thinking out loud, where you look at maybe the pros and cons or logic or home builder, and you go, They’re building with this fake but highly experimental material that should insulate the home in the winter and lower electric bills. That’s exploratory. So you explore the idea in terms of the case study, and you give an opinion. All I can tell every single person listening to the show is to make sure you use the words ‘in my opinion’ so that nobody gets confused when you’re stating a fact. All right. And last but not least, explanatory case studies. This is one where you’re a really, really, really, really, really to every single person out there what the case study means. Because maybe you’ve got numbers or marketing data, and you’ve got spreadsheets and dense material. Explaining and interpreting it are really great case studies. At least that’s what I thought when I read this list. How did you intend it when you wrote it, John?

I drew on the ideas from all the research I conducted, but I have also heard these used as a general description of topic areas. Topic is probably not the right word. I don’t know what other word to use, really. Categories, that’s probably a bit of… But it makes sense to me, narrative, descriptive, exploratory, explanatory. It makes sense to me, and I thought you did a good outline there. I think they’re good signposts about when you’re thinking about the case studies, are you going to hit one of these four categories, basically? That’s why I included it, and you did a good job, Rob.

Excellent. All right. Well, listen, ladies and gentlemen, my world is collapsing in on me. We got a small late start, and I’m just literally getting blown up to the point that I’m going to have to make an exit one way or the other. But before we go, if anyone cares to, check us out at inboundrim. Com, Services, and About page. I’m going to let John give you the same information. Hit, smash that like button wherever you’re listening to us. Please, for the love of God, do it. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. All right, John, how would you like people to reach out to you?

Instead of that, really, Rob, I wanted to say to people, if you’re listening on the phone, what we’re saying, and you’re listening on iTunes or Spotify, leave us a review. That would really help me. If you leave a review, most people listening to this, who are likely listening on their phones and probably using iTunes or Spotify, will find it easy to leave us a review. And if you do that, it will encourage more people to listen to the show. And then we’ll get into the top 10, and Robert will be fabulously happy. So please do that, and it really helps me. And Rob, back over to you, all right.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for your earballs today. We so deeply appreciate it. We do our best to bring something that we think is going to help your business every single week. John does a smashingly good job at this. So hopefully, you’ll tune in to us next week when we’re going to have something that’s going to entertain, dazzle, and improve your performance.

Why Case Studies Matter for Real Estate Businesses

#1 – Tell a story where your client – not your brand – stars

#2 – Create a familiar structure

#3 – Make it visually engaging

#4 – Case study formats

   Narrative case studies

   Descriptive case studies

   Exploratory case studies

   Explanatory case studies

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s for episode number 485 of the MailRight podcast. That’s right, that’s right, that’s right. You’ve found one of the top 100 real estate marketing podcasts available. If you’re on Apple or iTunes, or wherever it is, just click the link button. John and I would deeply appreciate it. Today’s show, which we’re super excited about, is Real Estate Case Studies That Win Clients, an inbound marketing strategy I have used to tremendous success and achieve outstanding results over the years. Before we get into that, though, before we start to tell you all the awesome, amazing ways you can use case studies, let’s let John tell you the awesome, amazing things that he’s up to and who he is so that you get used to the English voice as part of this podcast.

Thanks, Rob. I need to brighten it up. It’s been a rough day, hasn’t it? However, I’m the co-founder of Mel-right. Com. We’re a fabulous, easy-to-use CRM and AI-generated website builder, along with a range of other great tools, all in one really cost-effective bundle. It starts at around $49 to month. It’s just fabulous. Let’s go back over to you, Robert.

Beautiful. All right. My name is Robert Newman. I am the founder of InboundREM. We are an SEO and AIO-first marketing company that focuses on websites that you own, results that you can control, and a higher ROI than you can find anywhere else. If you’re interested in any of that, visit Inbound REN and look under the Services page, or simply watch my bio video to learn more about me. Let’s roll right into this, case studies. I have conducted case studies and reviews as my primary method of generating revenue for the past 10 years. I bootstrapped Inbound REN. We are now at approximately $3 or $4 million in total revenue for nine consecutive years. The vast majority of people who contact me contact me based on case studies or reviews. We’ve used every strategy and technology that John has gone out of his way to design. There are many different types of case studies that we can discuss. Now, John’s going to go into number one for you. Why don’t you talk to us a little bit about how it’s going?

Yes, I did update our shared calendar because I didn’t word it very well the first time, but I have now updated it. Tell a story where your client, not your brand, is the star. I left out the star in my original notes. What I mean by that, now, obviously, it’s okay to talk about yourself if it is of interests me. E, it shows your credibility, efficiency, and knowledge level, which will benefit the client. So, any information about yourself related to those subjects is fine. However, anything else, the client isn’t really interested. What the client’s really interested in is stories that they can relate to, which show that you can solve a problem they have. That’s what they’re interested in. A lot of real estate I see online suggests that it’s fair to say, ‘I sold these many houses last year, I had this much, I made this much money.’ It probably does show competence, but if you take it too far, it just comes across as bragging, basically. I think there’s a certain level beyond which it becomes damaging if you take it too far. They’re more interested if you’re marketing to a particular niche and your top case studies relate to that particular niche and show that you solve specific problems that niche might have. I think that’s much more powerful.

What do you reckon, Robert?

I reckon that if anybody wants to see a case study that has not only generated two times more business than the case study is about, but also has been It’s an incredible example of this. Go to southpasadinahomes. Com and look for the blog post titled 30% I Got My Client, 30% above Asking on a Teardown. The case study there is incredible because the client takes a bit of time to explain how he took 15 investors literally competing for a teardown. There was no overembellishment in the title. What he did was he manually, physically called all 15 of these investors, and he basically talked to them. This is an area of specialty for him. He understood what he was looking for. He found two people with good plans that needed the area, needed the land, and understood the value he brought in his ability to work with the historical society in the area that they were tearing down this home, which meant that they could get the permits to actually do it. All of those dots connected, and then he explained how he started a bidding war between those two investors that literally took someplace. This was not a house, John.

This was a spray-painted walls and floors that were falling apart and all this different stuff in South Pasadena. The house should have been torn down from the gate, but it was still standing. He got somebody to spend 1. 1 million instead of 735,000 on a property that they were going to have to tear down as soon as they bought it. It was incredible. It was incredible. Incredible case study. Explained exactly how he did it. Now, when When you’re giving case studies, what you’re trying to do is put the person who’s reading the case study in the shoes of the story. That’s what you’re doing. That’s why it’s so important to tell a story where your client is the star, not your brand. You don’t talk about you. You talk about the circumstances and the work and the result. And then that will sell you in a way that nothing else can, especially if it all happens to be true. I love storytelling case studies, especially when you work your ass off to get the case studies. A lot of my reviews take me years and years to get, and clients have to make 10 times what they spent with me before I can ever get a review publicly posted.

So I’ve spent years getting them. So it makes it so sweet when you finally get it and they’re true. John, this is also something I’m incredibly hot on, which is create a familiar I’m curious to know where your source was for that because I go with like, marketplace.

I did a bit of research on this. I got about four or five resources. I think I got that one from the contentmarketinginstitute. Com. I can put the links into chat. I’m not sure if I sent the links to you, but I was doing research after I’ve sent you your email. But yeah, that’s where I got it from. Because I know it’s with the ones you do and the ones you write for people, you’ve got a structure and you do research online, folks. I don’t think… Well, maybe you know this, I don’t. Maybe there’s some science behind it, but I think it’s more based on experience, what’s worked and what isn’t. But I’m just surmising that. I don’t know if there’s actually any science behind structure. But if you’re going to put the effort in, it’s best to see online or go to Rob’s website, and he’s probably got some examples on there and have a structure that’s worked for other people because they’ve probably done the pain of testing it. What do you reckon, Rob?

There’s so much science. Human beings have been telling stories for thousands upon thousands of years. There is a lot of study that says that we’re psychologically wired to tune into certain stories. That’s why a lot of our global fables are literally almost the same. And yet culturally, those stories were told theoretically by completely different people, completely different generations, completely different times. Yet sometimes you look at them side by side and you say it’s the same story. It’s just a duck instead of a goose or whatever. And here’s the thing. That is because certain story structures resonate with humans. Hero’s Journey is the most common story structure.

You’re talking about Campbell in his book and archetypes. Do you know if there’s any… And I’m not putting that down at all because I attempted to read the book and I just couldn’t do it. I don’t actually find him a very engaging writer. I’ve tried, I’ve listened to it a bit, but I had to stop on that. But I think these archetypes and that there’s a lot to it. But I was talking about, do you know if there’s any structures that there’s real hard core scientific where they’ve done peer study and they’re compared to one control group with another? Or is it just based, which I’m not pooh-poohing because I do actually believe if you look at ancient ancient Greece or powerful stories, you’re totally right. They have a similarity, don’t they?

Like the Odyssey, Homer’s Odyssey, probably the most significant recorded version of a hero’s journey that’s ever existed. In very many ways, the first true revenge story and the first spaghetti western all wrapped up into one. When you start saying, Is there any research? Well, not in quite the same way that you’re talking about that. Campbell stole from Jung. Jung spent a lifetime documenting his research, but because Excuse me, guys. My bad. Because of the nature of his study, he was never able to publish numbers like Kinsey because he wasn’t doing studies. He was working with clients. Science. But he did so much work on establishing all of his dream recording, a psychoanalyst, when it came to journaling and things like that, he noticed similarities in the way that different people in different parts of the world, different cultures were journaling the same thing, which made him spark off and write a book called Man’s Symbols or something like that.

Yeah, I have read that. It’s the same problem. It might be just down to me, the same problem with Campbell. I have attempted. That’s the only one I could get my head around because it’s an autobiography, but I think that’s the one we’re talking about when I think he goes to Africa. But the other books he’s written, I can’t make head or tell of them, but I’ve been influenced by other writers, a British writer who did a couple of biographies on Yann called Anthony Store, and I’ve been influenced by those. But attempting to read Yung’s own stuff, I just had to give up. It just didn’t gel with me, Robert.

I swear by him. I’ve built a career around him.

I really like the ideas, archetypes and other things he talks about. But I’ve had to read other writers that have read extensively his material. I just couldn’t get my head around reading his stuff.

For everybody that’s listening to this show, if you get curious, you can go to YouTube and type in Jung, and you’ll get two or three AI representations that are doing an excellent job of taking basically Jung’s thoughts and taking out some of his He was clinical and a rambling writer. He is very hard to follow.

Okay? He is very hard to follow. Rambling, isn’t it?

Yes. I also had a hard time getting through his stuff. What I don’t have a hard time doing is there’s a lot of really great people who have… I don’t want to use the word dumbed down, but they got like cliff notes. They take the main ideas, throw it in the videos, and they’ve animated, and they’ve done all sorts of cool stuff. So if you want to know like Jung’s Red Book, his period, go just YouTube it, everybody, because it’s an excellent source to understand structure or storytelling.

Do you think, I think the other factor, he could speak reasonably good English, but he was writing in German, and it was translated from German to English. And I know they have great… The people that do these translations are highly educated and experienced, but I still think it’s very difficult difficult, especially when you’re dealing with a rambling writer like Yung, and it’s such a vast subject. There must be something lost in the translation, I would have thought.

Yeah, Definitely. All right. Well, listen, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to go to a break and then we’re going to come back. But the answer is yes, there’s lots of people that talk about structure and writing, and there’s a lot of great marketing copywriters who are quite brilliant. Seth Godin is I’m one of them, even though I’m not the biggest. I’m more of a fan of Jung than I am of Seth. But Seth is also a brilliant writer. He is very good at what he does, which is how he’s become so famous. There are many, many, many great places to go to copywriting. If you want to get somebody who’s good at digital blog writing, go to neilpatel. Com.

I’ve actually interviewed him, Rob. Neil? What?

Seth or Neil?

No, not Young. Seth. I’ve actually interviewed him. It was about six years ago, but I have actually- You make me want to cry.

I’m going to cry right now. How did I not get a chance to do that?

Well, it was on my other show.

You and this other show. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that’s John casually mentioning that he’s got one of the top WordPress shows in the world.

I would say it’s one of the most consistent. I think I’m on episode 978 It’s pretty good.

All right, we’ll be right. It’s beyond pretty good. If you haven’t tuned into it, check out W-Tonic, WPTonic. Com. It is a very big show. John gets lots of notable guests. He does incredible round tables. He’s got it posted to numerous channels. It is all things WordPress-related. If you’re going to build a website on WordPress, or you’ve already built one with me, checking it out is not such a bad idea. All right, we’ll be right back. Stay tuned. Sorry about all the coughing, man. I don’t know what’s going on.

It’s all right. I think we’re doing some good stuff.

We always do some good stuff. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s episode number 485, I am here with my fearless co-host, Jonathan Dinwood. He is famous for many things, but the thing- Blabbing?

Blabbing? He’s famous for just blabbing. I’m a hot and bothered to die. He’s I’ve been all over the place to die. Oh, dear.

All right. We’re talking, we just briefly mentioned the fact that… Because we haven’t mentioned it in a little while. It’s only fair to mention everybody that John runs one of the longest established, best-regarded podcast on WordPress. He was just telling me he actually managed to interview Seth Godin for that other show. Seth Godin is a legend. He’s saying, Here’s one of the people that you’d most like to meet in the entire world, Robert, and I met them. I don’t care about celebrities, but God, the luminaries in the marketing field, God, I wish I could meet some of them. Anyway, he met Seth Godin, which I find to be so cool. When we’re talking about case studies, the next thing to do is to make it visually appealing. How would you go about doing that, John?

Well, I think visuals are important I think video. I’ve been busy the last six weeks, and I’ve got about kept my writing up on my blogging and that. But especially in the age of AI, you’ve got to add video to it, you’ve got to add calls for action, downloadables. You’ve got to mix it up with good visuals as well. On most of the stuff I now produce, I put one or two videos, and I try and jazz it up, and that Google seems to like that. There’s a lot of people out there saying that articles are finished, blah, blah, blah. I don’t really believe that. I think the past year has been extremely turbulent dealing with Google. I’m not quite sure even that Google understands what they’re doing. They’ve been feeding it out. So there’s been a lot of updates. There’s been a lot of people that have seen their traffic collapse, come back, collapse again. It seems to be all over the place. I think the SEO experts that I listen to, there’s a group of podcasts that I listen to around SEO experts because I tend to walk a lot in morning and late afternoon.

And that’s when I listen to these podcasts. And I think it settled down a bit, but I think having good visuals, having engage, video, I think, and I notice with what you do on your own website with your team and what you recommend to your own clients is this, mix it up with video, have good graphics, have it visually appealing. I don’t know if I’m boring him, because when he starts typing, I don’t know if I’m boring Rob or- No, I just had to take some notes real quick.

No, you’re not boring me. Sorry about that. I had to respond to something on my screen.

They’re always after you, aren’t they, Rob? People, there’s always something to do, isn’t it, Rob?

Well, it just depends. Some of the time it’s actually people I actually have to pay attention to who I try to let everybody in my life know that from 2: 00 to 3: 00 PM Pacific Standard Time on Thursdays, I’m podcasting. And 99% of the people in this world respect that, except for the two people that come into my house and work on Thursdays, because I had the brilliant idea that I would do everything all on one day, and it makes so much sense on paper.

It does, doesn’t it? It does. But it doesn’t quite make sense, does it, when you actually try and do it, does it?

Yeah, it doesn’t. Because all of a sudden somebody’s like, Hey, I’ve I got this thing. I’m about ready to buy for the work I’m going to do on your house. Do you need it?

It’s like- I do Thursdays on my busiest day because I try and get everything done on a Thursday.

Exactly. Well, in terms of we try very hard. You can do a lot of cool things, and it’s becoming cooler, faster because of AI. You can do lots of great visuals, use Midjourney for better thumbnails, use… Photoshop has jumped in the AI game, and I’m hearing from my team that their tools are actually pretty good. There are other tools that we use. We use Canva a ton to do compelling images.

Oh, yeah. Just a quick, I don’t know if you heard of this new AI image editor from Google in their Germanize Suite. It’s got a funny name. It’s got a really strange name. I run out of time today. It came up on my feeds, and it’s supposed to be really, really good, but it’s got some weird name.

But I’ll look at it. I mean, I’m a big fan of Google, so we’ll have to take a look at the image generator. So, one way or the other, we want to put something compelling, and compelling can mean a lot of different things to your audience. My team does this really cool thing where they go through the videos, and as they’re editing them, they find the one frame, like this frame, for those that are watching, I’m like, somehow you catch me doing, and then- He does that after he’s talking to me, folks. Then they capture that and use it on the title. That’s where I think you could do something compelling. Today, as soon as we get down here, John, I’m going to do it. My next video is about how to essentially AI-proof your business, although that’s not the title I’m using. I’m using a cooler, more exciting title. That’s really what the subject is going to be. We’re going to have to do some cool thumbnail to go along with it. No doubt my team will take something where I’m justiculating wildly with my little lightsaber, and they’re probably going to use that on the thumbnail.

I think that it’s whatever means that you have at your disposal to be creative, whether you’ve got a budget for Fiverr or Canva, or you have to use AI because that’s the time that you’ve got, and all you have time to do is put in a prompt, just make sure you do something. That would be my comment. All right, we’re down to the last one in terms of case studies. The last note here, and it’s a big one, though. You can present case studies in various formats. John, I’m going to jump into this. There are narrative case studies. There are descriptive case studies, exploratory and explanatory, all case studies. Each one of these is different. Narrative is typically told in the third person, or it can be a form of explanation that presents both sides. It’s also worth noting that, by the way, narrative is often referred to as storytelling, but it’s actually narrative. It’s like, and then this guy did this, and then the other guy did that, and then this guy did this, and then I did that, and it’s narrative. Descriptive is where it’s usually personal, really personal. You describe down to the last detail what happened.

The case study I referred to on southpasadinahomes. Com and Derek Vaughn, that was a descriptive case study. Exploratory case studies are what John and I do in terms of reviews. Exploratory thinking is often thinking out loud, where you examine the pros and cons, logic, or home builder, and you go, ‘They’re building with this fake but highly experimental material that should insulate the home in the winter and lower electric bills.’ That’s exploratory. So you explore the idea in terms of the case study, and you give an opinion. All I can tell every single person listening to the show is to make sure you use the words ‘in my opinion’ so that nobody gets confused when you’re stating a fact. All right. And last but not least, explanatory case studies. This is one where you’re a really, really, really, really, really, to every single person out there, what the case study means. Because maybe you’ve got numbers or marketing data, and you’ve got spreadsheets and dense material. Explaining and interpreting it are really great case studies. At least that’s what I thought when I read this list. How did you intend it when you wrote it, John?

I drew on the ideas from all the research I conducted, but I have also heard these used as a general description of topic areas. Topic is probably not the right word. I don’t know what other word to use, really. Categories, that’s probably a bit of… But it makes sense to me, narrative, descriptive, exploratory, explanatory. It makes sense logic to me, and I thought you did a good outline there. I think they’re good signposts about when you’re thinking about the case studies, are you going to hit one of these four categories, basically? That’s why I included it, and you did a good job, Rob.

Excellent. All right. Well, listen, ladies and gentlemen, my world is collapsing in on me. We got a small late start, and I’m just literally getting blown up to the point that I’m going to have to make an exit one way or the other. But before we go, if anyone cares to, check us out at inboundrim. Com, Services, and About page. I’ll let John provide you with the same information. Hit, smash that like button wherever you’re listening to us. Please, for the love of God, do it. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. All right, John, how would you like people to contact you?

Instead, I really wanted to say to people, if you’re listening on the phone, what we’re saying, and you’re listening on iTunes or Spotify, please leave us a review. That would really help me. If you leave a review, most people listening to this, who are probably listening on their phones and using iTunes or Spotify, will find it easy to leave us a review. And if you do that, it will encourage more people to listen to the show. And then we’ll get into the top 10, and Robert will be fabulously happy. So please do that, and it really helps me. And Rob, back over to you, all right.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your time today. We so deeply appreciate it. We strive to deliver something that we believe will benefit your business every week. John does a smashingly good job at this. Hopefully, you’ll tune in to us next week when we’ll have something that entertains, dazzles, and improves your performance.

.

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Right. It’s show 484, so do your countdown, and we go into it.

Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 484 of the Mailright podcast. I have just discovered, through my own due diligence, that the number one place you’ve been liking our show is Apple iTunes. I’d like to ask those of you who don’t know that we’re in the running to be the number one real estate podcast for marketing. We are number 89. Do us a favor and give us a like and a thumbs up if you enjoy the show’s content. Today, we’re going to talk about how to generate high-quality real estate leads in 2025. It’s going to be a fairly basic show for those of you who’ve listened before. We’re going to cover a couple of specific tips. We’re going to talk about things like driving traffic, optimizing landing pages, retargeting targeting ads, and conversion. Now, the conversion part of the conversation is probably one everybody will want to tune into. But before we dive into this extremely meaty and relevant subject, John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience?

Oh, Thanks, Robert. I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We’re a CRM, AI-generated website, and all-in-one lead generative platform, available at a fantastic price of $ 49 per month if you pay month-to-month. Back over to you, Robert.

Hey. So, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Robert Newman, and for those of you who don’t know me, I’m one of the country’s leading SEO guys, and I specialize in real estate. I build real estate websites. I specialize in real estate marketing campaigns that focus on organic and inbound strategies, which align directly with the conversation about generating higher-quality leads. Interestingly enough, our strategy isn’t here, but then again, on this list, but then again, it’s a long time. It’s a significant investment of either time, money or both. However, it far exceeds most other results in terms of both high quality and high ROI. Today, we’re going to start our list by discussing paid advertising. John, I think you do more paid advertising than we do. We have about 10-15 clients that we service in that field. I know that your partner is a paid advertising expert for Facebook, I believe. Yeah, Facebook. Why don’t you jump us off on this subject?

Yeah, I just want to make it clear. I’ve gathered many of these ideas from Eric Preston, whom we had on the podcast about a year ago. He’s the founder of Agent Launch, and I follow Eric on his YouTube channel quite a lot. And he’s really down to earth, and I like a lot of his ideas and how he explains things. I get a lot of my ideas around there from Eric, so I want to give him a shout-out. The environment’s changed. Our experience is primarily with Facebook, so I’ll focus on that. We haven’t got that many. We have about six or seven clients that we help with their Facebook advertising, as you can start off with a monthly budget of $500, depending on the area you’re in. However, in reality, you will be better off doing it yourself. Eric provides a wealth of training on his YouTube channel to help you do that. However, if you want us to help you and you’re looking to generate leads reasonably quickly, you really need to consider a budget starting at $1,000 and going up to $3,000 per month, depending on the area you’re competing in.

So, it’s definitely more expensive to get reasonable leads from Facebook. But on the other hand, with AI and what Facebook has done with AI, the leads that you do get are pretty good if you have the right budget.

Awesome. Well, I’m going to… Thanks for all that, John. I appreciate it, and I know the audience does as well. I’m going to share what I use paid advertising for, how I utilize it, and whether or not I feel it impacts lead quality. We are using paid advertising more and more because, as revealed in the lawsuit and the leak that occurred about a year ago, we now understand exactly how Google operates. We know that they lied about paid advertising. It does positively impact SEO. Okay? So there’s that. What we do is we run tests. We use paid advertising to run tests on pages and initiate user behavior, because there’s one thing you cannot fault paid advertising for. Theoretically, if you had your ad and your destination ready, you could start tomorrow. I could get traffic tomorrow. In fact, depending on the traffic I’m targeting, I might be able to get a thousand people to a page tomorrow, which means that user behavior and SEO signals start immediately. This can and sometimes It does lead to things like conversion. It definitely leads to faster SEO rankings on websites and similar platforms.

It does not help you with Facebook in terms of organic marketing unless, of course, you’re getting something that’s extremely shareable and that you’ve got a lot of accelerant in the terms of an existing audience ready and willing to share your content. Then paid advertising It works quite well on Facebook and can lead to some strong organic results depending on what you’re sharing. Now, having said that, one other thing that I love for advertising is testing things like video. Now, video is still an extremely cheap way to advertise. It rarely makes it onto conversion lists because lay down leads from video tend to be like lay down. They’re usually your customer by the time you get them. Unfortunately, you lose a lot of middle market indecisive people that a strong salesperson or sales team can convert. That means that video isn’t the end all, be all. It’s just a good way to get high quality leads for a relatively reasonable cost, but you’re probably not going to get your phone ringing off the hook. It’s my experience with it. It’s not on our list, but I decided to add it. What is on our list is number two is optimizing landing pages for high conversion.

Now, I have a lot of thoughts here because I built a lot of these pages, including what are called super pages, which is where you’ve got one web page that is effectively a whole website combined into a single page. There is a methodology that you use to create these pages that is like a philosophy that somebody described to me years ago. But before I jump into that, what did you have in mind when you put that? How would you How do you optimize your landing page for high conversion, John?

I think it’s just the basic principles, one clear call for action, CTA, social proof, video, but you’ve mentioned that if you can put video on the landing page, I think it really helps, but if you can’t, you can’t. You’ve just mentioned split testing. The split testing, it’s just minor change into the wording. It can have a dramatic effect on the amount of people that fill in. You need a good offer. Don’t ask too much information from the possible lead. Make sure that they got to put in the right email address to receive whatever they’re going to get for their information. Just don’t Just don’t automatically take them to somewhere where they can download because they’re just going to put in a crap email address. So it’s best that they can only get it. You’re going to set up with two factor authorisation, why you’re going to send them an email to say, did you want this? Did you want whatever you’re giving in exchange for their information? But it’s still It’s better to do it that way because they got to put in a decent email address. I would really try and cut down wanting their phone number and a load of additional info.

Constantly have this discussion with people. We want this field, we want that field. The more fields you have, the more it’s going to put off somebody. But they’re the basics because that’s what I thought this episode we would do, just go over the basics because I think a lot of people don’t understand the basics, do they?

I don’t think they do. High converting landing pages, the page that you land on, is different than high converting sales pages, at least in the general world of e-commerce mechanics, because usually what you’re doing is you’re on these really long, deep pages that I promised that I would talk about. You’re You’re usually doing benefit, benefit, benefit, temperature check, benefit, benefit, benefit, temperature check. Now, benefits could be videos, they could be social proof, they could be how many other people signed up. They can be a lot of different things. But what you’re generally doing is benefit, benefit, benefit, and then you’re like, doesn’t this sound great? Something like that. When I just looked up converting landing pages, I discovered that the first four or five websites seem to be drifting in the direction of neilpatel. Com. These websites are a simple sign-up form that leads you to deeper questions and mechanics inside. The Netflix was given as a great landing page, which is literally just a buying statement, an input bar, and a sign it. That’s it. Neil Patel is very similar. I do not think that without the brand that all the companies listed have, you’re going to get high conversion.

I don’t think anybody cares unless they already know who you are. However, if you’ve managed to convince somebody in a traffic-generating mechanism that you’re worth checking out, then these very simple landing page forms do work quite well. You might want to use video or ad copy that’s compelling, really compelling. What really compelling is, is I actually recommend that you use Neil Patel, to decide what ad copy should look like, or better yet, use ChatGPT or Gemini and see what they recommend for ad copy. You can probably come up with some reasonably good stuff if you wanted to. Failing all that, call a specialist like John and his team, and they should be able to help you out where these AI tools might not. Number three… Hold on.

I think we got fire break.

We’re going to go to our break. We When we come back, we will be right back, and we’re going to say thank you to our sponsors of our show. Probably ask you to save or like our show one more time, and then move on with the rest of the show, which we’re hoping is going to be a helpful refresh for those of you looking to generate some high-quality leads in 2025. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 484 of the MailRight podcast. Today’s show has been sponsored by mail-right. Com. It’s the only place to go if you’re looking for a reasonably priced CRM website combo where they build the website right in front of your eyes. I highly recommend you check them out. Ask for John and tell them that Robert sent you. All right. If you’d like to check out some SEO or AIO services, you’re going to want to go to inboundrem. Com, who’s our second sponsor for the show today. You can hit the About page and you can get in touch with me, Robert Newman, and I will happily give you consultation that will change the trajectory of your entire real estate career.

I pretty much guarantee it. All right, without any further ado, we’re going to go into the next subject on the list, which is retargeting ads. John, for those people that don’t know, why don’t you explain what retargeting is?

Yeah, especially on Facebook, you can put a pixel on your website on your landing When they hit it, they might not fill in the form, but it will track them. So when they go back to Facebook, you can do what’s called a retargeting campaign, which basically will reshow the offer to them on Facebook. I can’t remember what the average on a good, sorted out landing page is. You might know it, Robert, but it’s not that high. If you can increase the amount of people that will return and fill in the information and to get what you’re offering on the landing page, that’s fantastic. And you can do that with retargeting, and it’s a lot cheaper. It’s a lot cheaper because you’re dealing with a much smaller target. So it could be like 5, $10 a day to retarget, and it will increase the effectiveness of the campaign, basically. Back over to you, Rob.

We use retargeting. Now, retargeting is actually a method of traffic generation that is one of my favorites. Now, because retargeting Everything works really good with the idea of inbound. Inbound and paid. And paid advertising has a very big place inside the inbound marketing world. Inbound REN just doesn’t use a ton of it, at least not right now. We have a handful of clients that do a lot of it. But it requires… It’s like sending people to a place requires you have something really good for those people to look at in the inbound world, like to get a response, offer really good content drop, an e-book, something that you’ve built or designed that gives so much value that people want it, and then they reach out to you.

I think you specialize on the Google local business and local SEO, and it’s very, very effective. It just… That’s what you specialize in. You set everything up in your team. I Like I say, it’s very effective, isn’t it?

It works really, really well for some of our clients. Now, ladies and gentlemen, here’s something that you should all hear from me. The retargeting is one of my favorite inbound strategies. Why? Because we can take a list that you have of clients that have already reached out or connected with you or that you’ve scraped off the website traffic and then create an advertisement that follows them around. It’s one of the best inbound marketing ecosystem development tools that exists because you’ve already got their information. If you’re like me and you specialize in a particular profession, or let’s say you’re a real estate specialist such as mid-century Modern Homes or people that are relocating or a specific city. Well, if you got the name of everybody inside that city, an email marketing list of every person that publicly had their information for purchase, and then you did retargeting campaign that made sure that every time they came on the web, they saw an advertisement or a video of why you’re just the best person that they should talk to about, theoretically, maybe listing their home in a city. Is this the right time? What questions should you ask?

Get a free consultation with me today, and I will happily come to your house and give you all the pros and cons of listing your home in 2025 as an example. Then you let your market knowledge speak for you. If you’re really, really, really, really, really certain of your sales abilities like I would be, you’re going to offer anything at all just to get the conversation going. Then you’re going to walk through the door. Retargeting works so, so, so, so, so your information, you already understand where the audience is at, you already understand there’s some core element about the audience that you use to grab the information in the first place. My retargeting campaigns are aimed at people who’ve already visited my website, so I already know they’ve been there. But the most important part of the conversation, the most important part of the whole podcast is the next part of the conversation, which is conversion. Let’s just say that you do have something that’s generating calls or emails. Well, my goodness, the secret then becomes, how do you convert? How do you take a casual inquiry and convert it? That is a very big subject.

We could actually have a real estate podcast called Realtor Conversion Podcast, and probably do incredibly well, John and I. But that’s how big the subject is. But, John, why don’t you go ahead and give some Some tips, some updates?

Like I said, I’m just going by the way we set up MailRight, and Eric has a similar setup. Is that basically, they filled in the landing page, they’re giving you their email, they’re giving you their mobile number depending on how many fields you’ve got on the landing page. Well, with our system, you can build the landing page, and we also provide some lead magnets as part of our system. It’s a library, basically. I think we’ve got about 15 different lead magnets, and we’ve got a modern page builder where we got a library of different landing pages and patterns. So it enables you to build the landing pages really quick if you want to do it yourself. Then our system, what we recommend, what we do if we’re doing it for people, is we have a day one, a day three, and a day seven. Then after day seven, they go on a monthly drip. But day one, day three, day seven. Basically, we send them text and emails on day one, on day three, and on day seven. It depends on the agent. We like a link with the first frame of a video in the email.

Essentially, it’s an introduction to the agent, outlining the process for working with them, and then a follow-up email regarding whether they’re buyers and what the transaction process entails. Just a quick intro. Just to build trust, basically. What we’re really about is seeing if the potential leads are going to put their hand up, whether they will respond to the email, and whether they will respond to a text message. If they do, essentially, there are three buckets we categorize leads into: hot, nurturing, and unresponsive. If they put their hand up on day one or day three, that’s a hot lead, and that deserves a phone call. You’re not going to get around it. You’re going to have to call these people. It is. If they put their hand up and say, ‘Well, we’re not actively looking right now,’ that might be in the nurturing bucket. Then, if you don’t get any response from them, we put them on the monthly drip because they might not be thinking of buying or selling in six months to a year or 18 months. But it’s still worth putting them on a drip because Most agents are just terrible about all this, aren’t they?

They really are, which is what’s going to make my next comment all the more surprising. I’ve always thought and still think that if you’re going to… Whatever lead generation strategy you have going on, one thing I do a little differently is either personal outreach or personal calls. Now, my lead strategies for inbound are so strong. I have an 80% book rate with just a calendar or link. I rarely have to call my leads. But if I didn’t, if I didn’t have leads that were that strong, if I didn’t have that going for me, what I would be doing is calling every mediocre lead with some intro that instigated value. With IDX leads, it’s always, Hey, I just want to let you know I got the system registration. I’d like to update your search parameters so that when the system sends you properties, you receive the best ones based on your interests. Then, if the client hangs up on you or goes away, I delete the lead. If they start a conversation, I qualify when, where, and when they are thinking of moving. Where are you moving from?

What’s your price range? Do you have approved credit? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, three months to one year as a real estate agent, the more money you’re going to make. I say conversion is about understanding that every lead, no matter how unappealing, is an opportunity, and that you enter the conversation with that person to establish a relationship as soon as possible. I’ve never been a big fan of sales tactics as they relate to the individual relationship between a prospect and you. In other words, call them up with something that honors and respects your humanity and also honors the fact that you have to generate some business. If John has just moved to Wichita, how is your move? Are you liking Wichita? Let me ask you a quick question. Do you already have somebody that you’re under contract with? You have to be very careful about the way you phrase your questions. Are you under contract in order to purchase another piece of property? Because I know you just moved from Reno. Because you have to say the words under contract. Very few buyer’s agents are still applying contracts.

It’s a very subtle way to get the S. You have to be careful about how you open up your dialog. How do you get the contract? Now, I can go on all day long because telephone sales is my background. I’ve actually spent more time doing that than anything else. For over 30 years of my career, I’ve been doing telephone sales. What I suggest is that if you have questions about specifics, you should work on your pitch a bit. Honestly, it’s still a bit slow, so you can always reach out to me at inboundrim. Please contact us at com or [email protected] to schedule a call, and I’ll do my best to assist you. We’ve reached the end of our list a little early in terms of the show, just a few minutes ahead of schedule. I just want to thank John, as always, for putting together the show notes and remaining so disciplined and diligent. Ladies and gentlemen, this guy just moved halfway across the country and took only a single week off, and then was straight back into the trenches with me on the show. John, thank you very much. How would you like people to contact you if they would like to discuss the MailRight system?

Yes, simply visit the mail-right.com website. Have a look at what we have to offer. We’ve got a new library of WordPress-based starter websites. However, we also offer onboarding with one of my team members, where you can actually build a website in front of you using AI and prompts. Alternatively, you can use one of our starter themes and adapt it. It’s all using a modern WordPress page builder. However, if you wish to utilize AI, we will do so in front of you and get your website up and running on a dummy domain. We can then transfer it to your main domain, but this will be done immediately. Or, as I said, you can use one of our starter websites. That’s it.

That’s a compelling offer for somebody who’s looking to move quickly. Again, you’ve already heard me say to go to inboundrem.com or simply search for ‘real estate marketing company’. We’re now on the first page, at number 4, just to demonstrate our SEO capabilities. We’ve been working on it for… Again, I’m a very transparent guy. It’s been 18 months, but we’re currently just one step below a luxury presence, and we’re a 28-person team, whereas they’re a 400-person team. So, I feel pretty proud of the work that we’ve accomplished. Thank you all for your time today. I haven’t looked at a client’s name. I’m so sorry. John and I really appreciate it.

Is Joe better looking than me, then, Robert? More pleasant. Has it got the English sarcasm? Is that it?

I think I’ve grown accustomed to your English sarcasm after three and a half to four years. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for tuning in. Like and share the show where you find it. iTunes is most likely and followed shortly after Spotify. We’ll catch you next time. Thank you for your earballs.