Five with Fry

48: Why The First Boundary Is Easy And The Fifth Is Brutal


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The first “no” is brave. The fifth “no”? That’s the one that tells people you’re serious.

In this episode, we dig into a very real holiday scenario: you set a simple boundary—if grandpa uses slurs, I’m leaving—and suddenly the family group chat is acting like you’re detonating the traditions of the free world. Your sibling says “just ignore it,” your aunt pulls the “he doesn’t have much time” card, and somehow you become the problem for wanting a slur-free meal.

We break down why people who love you still push your limits, how family systems protect their comfort at all costs, and what to say in the moment so you don’t slip into a 20-minute TED Talk. You’ll get grounded, repeatable scripts you can actually use, plus the logistics that make boundaries stick: share it early, plan your exit, and pick one steady line you can return to when things get loud.

If the line does get crossed, we walk through how to leave without theatrics, how to send a short follow-up that connects action to boundary, and how to handle the fatigue that shows up afterward. Your nervous system needs reps before this gets easier, and consistency is what teaches people where your line actually is.

Expect some pushback. Expect some clarity, too. Boundaries get real in repetition.

If this episode gives you a line you can use at the table, pass it to someone else who needs backup this season. And if there’s a topic you want me to get into next, send it my way.

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Five with FryBy Dr. Jen Fry

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