https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/1dnzb7q/is_your_mind_moving/

 

Twenty-nine: Neither wind nor banner

 The Sixth Patriarch, because the wind blew the temple banner, two monks debated. One said the banner moves. One said the wind moves. Repeatedly, they did not reach the truth.

The Patriarch said, "It is not the wind that moves, nor the banner that moves. It is the mind of the virtuous that moves."

The two monks were startled.

Wumen says

It is not the wind that moves, not the banner that moves, not even the mind that moves. Where then, do you see the Patriarch? If you perceive this closely, then you know the two monks traded iron for gold. The Patriarch, hardly able to restrain his amusement, let out a joke.

# The verse says,

Wind, banner, and mind stirred,

one of these surpasses the others.

Only knowing how to talk,

not sensing the failure of speaking.

# Discussion

Is this free will or determinism?  Or nature or nrture? Is there "Freedom to not buy the BS"? What is "Free will" in spanish?  Abiter of your own liberty. Catholics, and Free Will vs God's Pocket Watch is being mean to us. ARBITER OF LIBERTY Zen Masters in the no-man's land between science and religion monks vs huineng vs wumen vs 4 statements Would you save a drowning child Zen is scientific. Ayn Rand, Pascal's Wager, and Huineng's Hypothesis