What does it really mean to be an ally in 2025? In this episode of Five with Fry, I sit down with Dr. Victoria Farris to unpack how "Good Girl" conditioning holds white women back from stepping fully into anti-racism work.

Dr. Farris, an expert on social conditioning, breaks down how ingrained behaviors—like the fear of making waves or the need for approval—can lead to silence when it matters most. We explore five critical questions that challenge white women to confront their complicity, embrace discomfort, and align their values with action.

From personal accountability to the risks (and rewards) of speaking out, we dive into what it truly takes to shift from performative allyship to transformative leadership. It’s time to break free from social norms that prioritize comfort over justice.

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Dr. Victoria Farris is a transformational leadership facilitator and coach working with executive leaders who want to move beyond surface-level DEI efforts and truly create inclusive, high-performing teams. Her approach combines leadership development, strategic alignment, and trust-building frameworks to equip teams with the tools they need for lasting impact. Her research focuses on understanding, from the perspectives of folks of color, what white people can do to disrupt and dismantle systems of racism, and she has developed a framework for effective allyship that outlines an action-based guide for disrupting racism on individual, group, and organization levels. Victoria is also a mother, activist, hypnotherapist, and avid joy seeker.