
Sign up to save your podcasts
Or
This is a response to this short. There is nothing here that is meant to take away, in any way, from the good this ministry does and will continue to do. In fact, in defense of the short - the LDS often obfuscate with their use of language, rather than clarify, including on their website.
The citations which the short portrays, and one from the comments are:
D&C 29.36-38; 76. 28-38; 88.24,32; "Hell" (LDS website)
The episode at issue in which we originally covered this is here. There will be overlap in coverage with other episodes from throughout the year, as well as the upcoming episode on Final Judgment.
LDS Website, e.g. - “Grace”
1 Nephi 10.20-21, 14.7,10, 15.35; 2 Nephi 9.46; 28.21-23; Alma 1.3-4, 34.32-35, 41.4-5, 42; 3 Nephi 26.4-5, 27.11-17,33; D&C 19; 133.73; Moses 4; Abraham 3
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith; also, here and here
The Words of Joseph Smith edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook
History of the Church 5.517
“Life and Death, or Organization and Disorganization” by Brigham Young (July 10,1853)
“The Three Glories” by Brigham Young (August 26, 1860); notice – even in the sermon where he says concerning D&C 76 that it “far outweigh[s] all the Christian tenets, doctrines, and systems they have drawn from the Bible” and that “[T]he doctrine God has revealed here is more precious to me, and is worth more than all the doctrines of Christendom” - he still goes on to say: “The Kingdoms that God has prepared are innumerable.” He did not read D&C 76 as teaching that the lines between the kingdoms are eternal barriers. Moreover, he states that the LDS elders' preaching hell is “good for nothing.”
“Eternal Punishment - ‘Mormonism,’ &c.” by Brigham Young (January 12, 1862) - wherein he states: “God’s punishment is eternal, but that does not prove that a wicked person will remain eternally in a state of punishment.” He here also distinguishes himself between the first and second death. Notice: no caveat made for anyone here – even under his discussion of the second death.
Brigham Young: JD 1.118, 1.185 (also here); 1.275-276; 2.31; 2.124; 2.135-136; 2.137; 3.94; 3.247; 4.285; 5.76; 7.57; 9.333
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1. 161, 3.109, 3.125; 4.2,4-5; 4.223; 4.329; 5.95; 5.203
John Taylor: JD 1.151-152
Orson Pratt: JD 2. 336-337
Jedediah M. Grant: JD 2.227
George A. Smith: JD 12.333-334
George Q. Cannon: JD 24.374
Chas. W. Penrose: JD 24.91-93: “But it does not follow that because a person may be banished into the eternal punishment it is intended that he shall stay there eternally. He may go into eternal punishment, he may go to the place prepared for the rebellious and the sinner and stay there but for a certain period.” He then goes on to speak of D&C 19, then D&C 76 – and then states: “The sons of perdition are to go away into this everlasting punishment.” He makes only the caveat of “this world or the world to come”.
A few more relevant Brigham Young quotes:
Evidences and Reconciliations; A Rational Theology; Joseph Smith: Seeker After Truth – Prophet of God; The Message of the Doctrine and Covenants by John A. Widtsoe
Elias: An Epic of the Ages by Orson F. Whitney
Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage
A Gospel Trilogy by Cleon Skousen
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
Gospel Principles ; Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service
LDS Temple transcript: here and here; A form of it is in the book by Sandra Tanner, cited below. This is the script that Skyler read from in the episode. Apparently, there is also a line (missing from the Tanner version) about believing in “a devil”, as well. Notice: the belief in “a devil” is condemned literally in a scene where Lucifer is present.
“Review: Heaven, Hell, and Other People: A Wandering Review of Samuel Brown’s First Principels and Ordinances” by Michael Austin
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Mormonism in Transition by Thomas Alexander
The Development of LDS Temple Worship, 1846-2000: A Documentary History, edited by Devery Anderson
The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship by David John Buerger
Mormon Matters
“Eternal Damnation, Outer Darkness, and the Reorganization of Intelligence” by Tom Bennett
Concise Theology by J.I. Packer
Simply Put: here and here
“Trichotomy: A Beachhead for Gnostic Influences” by Kim Riddlebarger
Isaac Watts Hymn: “When I can Read My Title Clear”
This is a response to this short. There is nothing here that is meant to take away, in any way, from the good this ministry does and will continue to do. In fact, in defense of the short - the LDS often obfuscate with their use of language, rather than clarify, including on their website.
The citations which the short portrays, and one from the comments are:
D&C 29.36-38; 76. 28-38; 88.24,32; "Hell" (LDS website)
The episode at issue in which we originally covered this is here. There will be overlap in coverage with other episodes from throughout the year, as well as the upcoming episode on Final Judgment.
LDS Website, e.g. - “Grace”
1 Nephi 10.20-21, 14.7,10, 15.35; 2 Nephi 9.46; 28.21-23; Alma 1.3-4, 34.32-35, 41.4-5, 42; 3 Nephi 26.4-5, 27.11-17,33; D&C 19; 133.73; Moses 4; Abraham 3
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith; also, here and here
The Words of Joseph Smith edited by Andrew Ehat and Lyndon Cook
History of the Church 5.517
“Life and Death, or Organization and Disorganization” by Brigham Young (July 10,1853)
“The Three Glories” by Brigham Young (August 26, 1860); notice – even in the sermon where he says concerning D&C 76 that it “far outweigh[s] all the Christian tenets, doctrines, and systems they have drawn from the Bible” and that “[T]he doctrine God has revealed here is more precious to me, and is worth more than all the doctrines of Christendom” - he still goes on to say: “The Kingdoms that God has prepared are innumerable.” He did not read D&C 76 as teaching that the lines between the kingdoms are eternal barriers. Moreover, he states that the LDS elders' preaching hell is “good for nothing.”
“Eternal Punishment - ‘Mormonism,’ &c.” by Brigham Young (January 12, 1862) - wherein he states: “God’s punishment is eternal, but that does not prove that a wicked person will remain eternally in a state of punishment.” He here also distinguishes himself between the first and second death. Notice: no caveat made for anyone here – even under his discussion of the second death.
Brigham Young: JD 1.118, 1.185 (also here); 1.275-276; 2.31; 2.124; 2.135-136; 2.137; 3.94; 3.247; 4.285; 5.76; 7.57; 9.333
Heber C. Kimball: JD 1. 161, 3.109, 3.125; 4.2,4-5; 4.223; 4.329; 5.95; 5.203
John Taylor: JD 1.151-152
Orson Pratt: JD 2. 336-337
Jedediah M. Grant: JD 2.227
George A. Smith: JD 12.333-334
George Q. Cannon: JD 24.374
Chas. W. Penrose: JD 24.91-93: “But it does not follow that because a person may be banished into the eternal punishment it is intended that he shall stay there eternally. He may go into eternal punishment, he may go to the place prepared for the rebellious and the sinner and stay there but for a certain period.” He then goes on to speak of D&C 19, then D&C 76 – and then states: “The sons of perdition are to go away into this everlasting punishment.” He makes only the caveat of “this world or the world to come”.
A few more relevant Brigham Young quotes:
Evidences and Reconciliations; A Rational Theology; Joseph Smith: Seeker After Truth – Prophet of God; The Message of the Doctrine and Covenants by John A. Widtsoe
Elias: An Epic of the Ages by Orson F. Whitney
Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage
A Gospel Trilogy by Cleon Skousen
Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie
Gospel Principles ; Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service
LDS Temple transcript: here and here; A form of it is in the book by Sandra Tanner, cited below. This is the script that Skyler read from in the episode. Apparently, there is also a line (missing from the Tanner version) about believing in “a devil”, as well. Notice: the belief in “a devil” is condemned literally in a scene where Lucifer is present.
“Review: Heaven, Hell, and Other People: A Wandering Review of Samuel Brown’s First Principels and Ordinances” by Michael Austin
Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
Mormonism in Transition by Thomas Alexander
The Development of LDS Temple Worship, 1846-2000: A Documentary History, edited by Devery Anderson
The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship by David John Buerger
Mormon Matters
“Eternal Damnation, Outer Darkness, and the Reorganization of Intelligence” by Tom Bennett
Concise Theology by J.I. Packer
Simply Put: here and here
“Trichotomy: A Beachhead for Gnostic Influences” by Kim Riddlebarger
Isaac Watts Hymn: “When I can Read My Title Clear”