The last two words that anyone expected to see in Captain America’s word balloon were “Hail Hydra,” but sure enough, that’s what happened in Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 in 2016. The outcry Marvel heard back for this move was even bigger than they had anticipated.

Of course, it wasn’t a permanent change, but it wasn’t undone in the way we might have expected, either. How does it read a few years later, and what are the good and bad points of the event it led to, Secret Empire? Joe and Kendall from the Wayne Manor Memoirs podcast join Tim for the first of two episodes taking apart the controversy and a massive Marvel event.

IGN interview with Nick Spencer as Secret Empire began

Screen Rant’s take

CBR Nick Spencer video interview

Radd Titan Nick Spencer video interview