Distinctive Christianity

9. CFM: John 2-4


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Original Title: Marriage and God is Spirit


In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the seventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 6-12) covers John ch.'s 2-4 and is titled "Ye Must Be Born Again".

If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!


LDS Sources:

Individuals and Families

Achieving a Celestial Marriage (student manual)

Orson Hyde (JD 4.259f)

King Follett Discourse by Joseph Smith

A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe

In These Three I Believe (Gordon B. Hinckley)

JST John 4

D&C 131.7-9

Brad Wilcox Fireside


Joseph Smith: Behind the Mask (Jason Wallace)

Sandra Tanner (here and here); also see Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?, ch. 16.

Conflict In the Quorum by Gary Bergera includes accounts of Joseph Smith not only sending men on missions and then trying to secretly marry their wives - but also Joseph Smith secretly isolating and then marrying even teenage girls (with the promise of exaltations depending on their submission to him) - and of course, behind Emma's back. (Some of the evidence even includes Smith writing the line: "burn this letter as soon as you read it".) More notes below.


Resources:

Westminster Confession of Faith, ch. 2

Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck


The Gospel Code by Ben Witherington III

The Gospel According to John by D.A. Carson

God, Marriage, and Family: Rebuilding the Biblical Foundation by Andreas Kostenberger and David W. Jones

7 Myths About Singleness by Sam Allberry

Redeeming Singleness by HyoJu Lee

Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin

On the Trinity by Augustine

The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton


Temples Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)

On the development of the LDS temple (here)


Temple of Presence by Andrea Robinson (Also here and here)

God Dwells Among Us by Gregory Beale and Mitchell Kim

The Temple and the Church's Mission by Gregory Beale


Additional Notes/Resources:

It should be noted that there is no evidence even from the so-called "gnostic gospels" that Jesus was married, either (whether in history or even in the imagination of later heretics) - contrary to what many may suppose. And the so-called 'Gospel of Jesus' Wife' has now been proved a forgery. What served as supposed evidence for the position when believed authentic is often ignored as evidence against the position when proved a forgery. (here, here, here, here, here and here)

One example of an early mormon leader teaching not only that Jesus was a polygamist - but that he was crucified for polygamy is: "The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were 'Mormons.'" (Jedediah Griant, JD 1:346 )

Brigham Young also claimed that the Lord was a polygamist. (JD 13:309)

Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera (e.g.):

  • During the LDS April general conference in 1875 - apostles Orson Hyde and Orson Pratt (the senior members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) who were next in line for the church presidency were quietly demoted below John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff. (prologue) "No explanation was offered before or after the voting."(p.2) This power-play by Brigham Young shifted the direction of Mormonism and disproves many current LDS claims to a direct line of priesthood authority back to Smith. Orson Hyde would have replaced Brigham Young as president of the church in 1877 - and would have been followed by Orson Pratt the following year. Instead, it was John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff. (p. 3)


  • This book also documents the debates surrounding the re-institution of a First Presidency. A quorum higher than the Quorum of the Twelve was not an obvious thing at the time, as the book documents. (esp. chapter 3, p. 53f)


In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Todd Compton (also: here)

  • Joseph Smith denied the polygamy, stating publicly in May 1844: "...What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers." (HC 6.411) At the time he made this statement he (secretly) had over 25 plural wives. Now even the LDS church admits that the "exact number of women to whom he was sealed is unknown...Careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40."


Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman (e.g.):

  • p.39 "Probably in early 1820"; if you look at footnotes 27, 30, and 34 - he acknowledges the work of Wesley Walters which shows that the revivals of 1824 were likely the background of the "First Vision" account although Smith published in JSH that it was the spring of 1820.
  • On footnote 35 of p. 118 (p.588) Bushman states that "Neither Joseph nor any of the other early chroniclers mentioned the event in their histories...Joseph inserted the first reference to Peter, James, and John in a revelation dated August 1830." (And yet, it only gets more problematic the closer one looks. here and here)


Joseph Smith told Alexander Neibaur that he saw Jesus with a light complexion (white skin) and blue eyes (A.N. Journal, May 24,1844). Yes, Jesus is a white man, according to the founding Mormon/LDS prophet. And if the son looks just like the father, then...! This is related to some racial issues in LDS history - but has clearly impacted LDS art to this day, as should be obvious throughout any official sources. Whiteness is also true of Mary in 1 Nephi 11.13-15, who is even claimed by some LDS (e.g.) to actually be from England. Also see Mormonism - Shadow or Reality?, ch. 21.

On Joseph Smith being the Holy Ghost - many have in mind the teachings where Smith said (e.g. KFD) he couldn't tell the congregation who he was. This is then linked with the quote: "Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (WPJS, p. 245; also here) This is hinted at in even mormon prophecies of Joseph's part in the last days. Many who believe this will deny it.

Lying For the Lord (also here, here and here)

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Distinctive ChristianityBy Brendon Scoggin and Skyler Hamilton