97% Effective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

Every meeting you lead is also a reputation event—and a leadership audition: people leave judging not only the meeting, but you. This episode of 97% Effective takes aim at the mother of all time sinks at work: meetings. Host Michael Wenderoth speaks with Chris Fenning about his latest book, Effective Meetings: Great Results, Less Pain, Every Time. They cover the practical essentials — how to open a meeting, keep it on track, and manage people who derail it — but also the issues most leaders avoid: the silent reputational hit you take when you run a bad meeting, why AI can summarize meetings but cannot fix the human judgment behind them, and when the best meeting is no meeting at all. If people quietly complain about meetings in your company — or, let’s be honest, the ones you run — this episode will give you practical ways to make them sharper, shorter, and more useful.

SHOW NOTES

Michael and Chris demo

• TPO in real time (Topic-Purpose-Output)
• The forgotten second step: checking that everyone is aligned

The real reason he wrote his latest book

• Why meetings were the next workplace problem Chris had to tackle
• The hidden “meeting tax”: how bad meetings drain time, money, attention, morale, and credibility
• Calculating the tangible dollar cost of a bad meeting
• Calculating the intangible cost -- to your reputation – from running a bad meeting
• Companies have spending controls, but no controls over calling people into meetings that don’t produce anything
• The shocking MIT stats: online shopping, mobile games, and proof that many people shouldn’t be in the meeting at all

Before the meeting: Keys to preparation

• The single biggest impact you can make
• Why AI can take notes and see patterns– but cannot decide why your meeting exists
• Why Chris thinks agendas are not the “quick fix” solution to improving your meetings
• Don’t schedule a meeting unless you can first answer three points
• How everything – who you invite, how you invite them and how you run the meeting -- all starts with TPO (Topic-Purpose-Output)
• Three questions to ask to determine if you even need a meeting
• Preparation is valuable – and doesn’t have to be a time suck

During the meeting: How to keep it from going off the rails

• Top tip about running a virtual meeting
• Ways to improve how you show up on camera online
• Managing the person who disrupts and derails your meeting
• What to do when a meeting feels good, but it is not advancing
• How to cut someone off without becoming the office Darth Vader

Practical gems

• “Finding your sweet spot” – the healthy middle ground between Micromanager and Lord of Chaos
• Top tip on making meetings better if you don’t lead them
• The 97% Effective way to nudge a bad meeting leader: leave Chris’s book on their desk
• The next exciting project for Chris

BIO AND LINKS

Chris Fenning helps professionals master their communication at work. Whether it is helping experts talk to non-experts, teams talk to executives, or simply being able to start a message clearly. Chris's practical methods are used in organisations like Google, JP Morgan, and NATO, and have appeared in the Harvard Business Review. He is also the author of four award-winning books on communication and training that have sold more than 100,000 copies worldwide. Find out how Chris can help you at www.chrisfenning.com

Connect with Chris

• Website: https://chrisfenning.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-fenning/
• His book, Effective Meetings: https://mybook.to/effective-meetings
• His Online courses: https://chris-fenning.thinkific.com/

Organizations, People and Resources Referenced

• MIT findings--To meet or not to meet: https://tinyurl.com/p8kmev7e
• Chris on 97% Effective discussing his blockbuster book (100,000 copies sold), The First Minute: https://tinyurl.com/2934nc7f
• Chris on 97% Effective: How to Write Effective Emails: https://tinyurl.com/yw3uxbfh
• Flowtrace: https://www.flowtrace.co
• How to Read the Room When You’re Not in the Room: https://changwenderoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/zoom-lives-how-to-read-the-room-when-youre-not-in-the-room-ie-insights.pdf
• Vinh Giang, referenced by Chris for his demo on virtual camera framing: https://www.vinhgiang.com

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

What happens when China, AI, and Western coaching collide? Dr. Ruohao Chen, leadership researcher at Columbia University, believes we have an unprecedented opportunity before us. In this episode of 97% Effective, host Michael Wenderoth speaks with Dr. Chen what Americans and Chinese can learn from each other— and why the future of coaching and leadership may depend on blending ancient wisdom, human presence, and AI-enabled scale. Drawing on Dr. Chen’s research and work with 300 Chinese coaches, this conversation goes beyond the U.S.-China rivalry to ask a better question: what if the next leadership edge comes from learning across the divide?

SHOW NOTES

Dr. Chen’s path

• How a high school teacher in China rose to start an edtech company and become professor at Columbia University
• Gloom? Two reasons why Dr. Chen is optimistic about the the US and China relationship
• On American vs Chinese thinking: “In terms of culture we’re quite different, but in terms of nature we’re actually quite close to each other”

Dr. Chen’s early research

• What China’s education entrepreneurs do different: reserving money--and tapping into ancient philosophy and relational learning.
• How his research makes him a cross-cultural bridge, and offers valuable insight from China and the US in the era of AI

The growth of coaching in China

• Inner creativity, giving space, and deep reflection to come up with the “aha moment”: How Buddhist and Confucian teaching mirror the core tenets of Co-active coaching
• The “coaching club” that provides weekly seminars and workshops to 300 coaches in China
• “The care for human dignity” – what most surprises Chinese about Western coaches
• What China’s coaches find most valuable from their US peers: “the care for human dignity,” a systematic approach to coaching, and how to commercialize one’s practice

Insights from his current research

• “Not skill improvement, but a change in perspective”: The surprising insight from what most helped unemployed Chinese return to the workforce
• Will AI replace human beings and be more effective coaches?
• Situations where people prefer human coaches – and where AI has the biggest advantage
• Where his latest research on AI entrepreneurs is leading him

BIO AND LINKS

Dr. Ruohao Chen, is a leadership researcher and Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Adult Learning & Leadership program at Teachers College, Columbia University. He holds an Ed.D. in Adult Learning & Leadership, and his work focuses on strategic thinking, transformative learning, and leadership development that integrates Eastern and Western wisdom. Dr. Chen designs and leads leadership development programs through the Huber Institute for Organizational Learning at Columbia University, attracting talented and experienced leaders from China and across Asia. He is a certified coach through the Columbia Coaching Program and served as the Paper Track Chair for the International Columbia Coaching Conference 2025. He previously worked as a postdoctoral researcher at the Center on Chinese Education at Teachers College, consulted with Harvard Business Publishing, and founded Education for Growth, a global learning community of over 10,000 educators and practitioners. In 2023, he completed his doctorate and was selected as Teachers College’s commencement speaker, becoming the first Chinese graduate to deliver the address in the institution’s 136-year history. Outside of work, Dr. Chen is also a certified fitness trainer and an amateur cello player.

Connect with Dr. Ruohao Chen

• Reach out directly on -mail: rc3035 [at] tc.columbia.edu
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chenruohao/
• Academic profile: https://tc.academia.edu/LancerChan

Organizations, People and Resources Referenced

• The Columbia Adult Learning & Leadership Program: https://www.tc.columbia.edu/organization-and-leadership/adult-learning-and-leadership/
• IShowSpeed, American influencer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IShowSpeed
• Resources on US vs China and cross-cultural thinking: Hofstede (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Hofstede ), Gelfland (https://www.michelegelfand.com ), Meyer (https://erinmeyer.com ), Dan Wong’s book Breakneck (https://amzn.eu/d/09Wr3Adj)
• Chen, R. (2024). How Chinese business leaders in the tutoring industry learned to think strategically in a time of crisis. New Directions for Adult and Continuing Education, 2024, 53–65. https://tc.academia.edu/LancerChan
• Chen, R. Pathways Toward Transformative Learning: Middle-aged Adults' Job Loss and Re-employment in Urban China. Adult Education Quarterly. https://journals.sagepub.com/home/aeq
• Chen, R. Transformative Learning in Isolation: A Phenomenological Study of Chinese Adults Navigating Uncertainty https://tc.academia.edu/LancerChan
• Chen, R. Could AI Coaching Platforms Really Work? A Systemic Analysis of Services, Design Patterns, and Effectiveness of AI Coaching Platforms https://tc.academia.edu/LancerChan

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

To rise to the leadership ranks, you need to work with critical stakeholders. And the key to doing that effectively, says leadership expert Rebecca Zucker, is to form deeper relationships.

How do most high performers get relationships wrong – and stall their rise? In this episode of 97% Effective, host Michael Wenderoth and Rebecca Zucker go deep on how to deepen relationships, so you not only get to the leadership ranks, but thrive there. They discuss tasks vs relationship balance —and the connection between trauma, trust and overturning our immunity to change. Rebecca draws from decades coaching senior leaders and her training as a trauma informed coach. If you approach building relationships as a checklist, this episode will help you see the more important layer you’ve been missing.

SHOW NOTES

• Why deepening relationships is critical
• How we are hurt by a myopic focus on tasks and “getting shit done”
• Thinking about relationships as “the channel through which things happen”
• The importance of being attuned to your task vs relationship balance

Helping leaders deepen relationships

• Managing the trap of being in the weeds and the limiting belief that “I have to do it”
• Doing vs being: how do you see and view relationships?
• The bamboo finger cuff challenge: why you need to let go and just be present and attuned

Trauma, distrust and overcoming deeply held beliefs and behaviors

• “Moving fast is a trauma response: we move fast so we don’t feel… which results in people not feeling connected”
• The dynamic you create when you walk in the room with distrust
• “The antidote to distrust is not trust – it’s being conscious of the distrust”
• How our beliefs and assumptions that served us in the past -- become our downfall
• How Rebecca creates space for clients to open up and explore
• The big block for Type 3 Achievers: “When we can’t feel our own feelings, we can’t feel other people’s feelings, which gets in the way of connection”

Realizing change

• Developing the skill to “slow the f down” and expand your container
• “If you’re approaching building a relationship with a checklist, that’s not going to work”
• How to control yourself and slow down – when everything in your company is whirling fast?
• The importance of not taking on other people’s anxieties
• Coping strategies vs healing
• Emotional boundaries and staying on your side of the net

Noticing and Feedback

• The skills of “continuous double-clicking” to notice, getting real-time feedback, paying attention to self-protective reactions
• Inner vs outward defensiveness
• Tips on getting real feedback from your reports
• How feedback can improve a relationship – when it is done well
• Having hard conversations but not making someone feel like a fool

Lightning round: Hard truths, biggest influences, and 25 years of Next Step Partners

BIO AND LINKS

Rebecca Zucker is founding parter at Next Step Partners, which serves global clients based out of San Francisco, USA. An expert in executive coaching as well as leadership and career development, Rebecca coaches C-level executives and other senior leaders across the globe. She is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review and Forbes.com and is frequently quoted in the press on career and leadership issues. Rebecca graduated as valedictorian from the Leonard N. Stern School of business at NYU and later received her MBA from Stanford. She then worked as an investment banker for Goldman Sachs in New York and held leadership positions at Disney EMEA in Paris and at Robertson Stephens. She received her coaching training and certification from the Coaches Training Institute and from Minds at Work. Rebecca is certified as a trauma-informed coach.

Connect with Rebecca

• Next Step Partners: https://nextsteppartners.com/partner/rebecca-zucker/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-zucker-nsp/

Organizations, People and Resources Referenced

• What is a Mensch? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensch
• Trauma-Informed Coaching with Thomas Hubl and Amy Fox: https://traumainformedcertificateprogram.com
• The Enneagram Type 3: Achiever https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-3/
• Ron Carucci interview on “Fixing Our Trust Recession” https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/97-effective/id1646325886?i=1000602244842
• Immunity to Change (Lisa Lahey and Bob Keegan): https://www.gse.harvard.edu/hgse100/story/changing-better
• Rebecca’s article in HBR: Facing the Fears Holding You Back https://rebeccazucker.com/thoughts/facing-the-fears-that-hold-you-back-at-work
• Rebecca’s article in HBR: Eliminating Fears and Limiting Beliefs: https://hbr.org/2019/10/how-to-deal-with-constantly-feeling-overwhelmed
• Rebecca’s article in HBR: Asking for Help at Work: https://hbr.org/2022/12/how-to-get-better-at-asking-for-help-at-work

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Michael Senturia.

Ever feel like your leadership team isn’t in tune, or that you hit the wrong note with people at work? Today’s guest says the world of jazz has the answers. In this episode of 97% Effective, host Michael Wenderoth explores what leaders can learn from jazz musicians with Dr. Michael Y. Brenner, CEO of Right Chord Leadership. They discuss Dr. Brenner’s new book, Strike the Right Chord, and the connection he makes between musical harmony and effective leadership. If you are tired of the same old leadership cliches, transport yourself in this episode to the world of jazz, where you’ll see your leadership challenges through a refreshingly different and powerful new lense.

SHOW NOTES

Mike’s path

• The record that changed his trajectory: “They’re making that up as they go? I gotta learn how to do that!”
• Copy writing, working at QVC, and his hard truth about leadership

Lessons for leaders

• How jazz musicians approach their craft
• Keys to collaboration: “Jazz attitude” and walking the line between structure and chaos
• A novel new framework: Mike’s CHORD model for leadership
• What jazz teaches us about different profiles working in harmony – and how Mike uses DISC to help teams do that in practice
• Lessons from Mike’s doctoral research in Canada: what leaders learn from artists
• “When you hit the wrong note, it's the next note that makes it good or bad.”

Dealing with the messy part of leadership

• Is the goal of leadership to achieve harmony?
• Respect, support – and the need for tough love
• The key to managing egos and managing up: “Serve the music”
• Why we still get crappy leaders who don’t embody the qualities Mike describes
• A novel way to think about authenticity: Having a “foundation of voice” but being able to adapt to the situation

BIO AND LINKS

As founder and CEO of Right Chord Leadership, Dr. Michael Brenner collaborates with leaders and teams to strengthen the essential skills needed for peak performance. He achieves this by drawing on more than 25 years of experience as an international leadership consultant, executive coach, keynote speaker, and educator, and more than 40 years as a professional musician. Michael holds a doctorate in Adult Learning and Leadership from Columbia University and a master’s degree in Adult and Organizational Development from Temple University. He plays in two bands based in Philadelphia, PA, USA. Strike the Right Chord is his first book.

Connect with Dr. Michael Y. Brenner

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelybrenner/
• Right Chord Leadership: https://rightchordleadership.com
• Get Mike’s Book, Strike the Right Chord: https://rightchordleadership.com/resources/
• Speaker Reel: https://rightchordleadership.com/speaking/
• Email: michael [at] rightchordleadership.com

Organizations, People and Resources Referenced

• Episode dedicated to the memory of Michael Senturia: https://music.berkeley.edu/news/department-mourns-passing-emeritus-professor-michael-senturia
• Al Jarreau: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jarreau
• The Columbia Coaching Conference: https://www.columbiacoachingconference.org
• Banff Institute: https://www.banffcentre.ca
• Whiplash, the movie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2582802/
• Christian McBride: https://www.christianmcbride.com
• Dr. John Schaffner interview on 97% Effective: https://redcircle.com/shows/97-effective/ep/4fae4e9f-bdbf-4cab-8aa5-298544b3651c
• Pat Metheny: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3t58jfUhoMLYVO14XaUFLA?si=H-meVhdFQlqWxQSvjf7O1g

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

Every misunderstanding contains a small “miss” in how we communicate—and Jon Wortmann, today’s guest, can show you how to fix that. Jon’s work helps you make the small adjustments to connect better with everyone in your life, and elevate your leadership. In this episode of 97% Effective, host Michael Wenderoth speaks with Jon Wortmann, executive coach and sports performance coach, about his latest book “The Nine Tendencies.” They walk through practical ways to understand our tendencies, adjust your communication style, and deal with the most challenging people. Jon also discusses his work as a minister and sports performance coach, which will get you thinking more deeply about your spiritual life and the habits of peak performers.

SHOW NOTES

Jon’s path from minister to peak performance coach

• The mental health challenges that led him to the ministry
• How “learn how to calm my brain” gave him first-hand experience in his field
• The decision to go from minister to full-time coach
• On where Americans are increasingly spiritual: “I have more conversations about spiritual life, ironically, as an executive coach than I did some weeks in a spiritual community.”
• The Chaplain at Carleton College that helped Jon the most: “To not know where you have options is where the problem was.”

Insights from his book, The Nine Tendencies

• Hard truth about communication: People need to get really good at getting to the point
• Does your audience want the details first, or the bottom line first?
• How Jon’s communication got him fired by his CEO client
• Is awareness of your communication tendencies enough for you to make a switch?
• “Personality lives on a spectrum, tendencies are binary”
• The Nine Tendencies: The way we think, how we add color, the way we share ideas
• Does Jon overlook body language?
• How Jon’s book is different and the main message he wants readers to take away
• What to do if someone else’s communication pattern drives you nuts

Practical Communication Tips

• How to assess our tendencies, those of others—and the ultimate metric of communication success
• People value you more when you adjust to their communication style
• Three ways to handle someone is difficult to communicate with
• How remote work impacts our Nine Tendencies

Insights from his work as a chaplain and sports performance coach

• Lessons from his spiritual teaching: Everybody is great, but nobody has helped most people find those things
• “Every brain is different”
• Does Jon miss his spiritual work?

BIO AND LINKS

Jon Wortmann is an executive coach and trainer, author, and sports performance coach. A graduate of Carleton College and Harvard University, his books, Mastering Communication at Work and Hijacked by Your Brain, were #1 best-sellers in 22 categories on Amazon. He has delivered over 3500 trainings in 13 verticals with global clients on 46 topics including communication, resilience, and trust. His professional golfers play on every professional tour, and he was voted a coach of the year in Big East conference with UCONN Golf in 2021. His new book, The Nine Tendencies, systematically defines the critical communication adjustments which transform relationships and teams.

Connect with Jon

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-wortmann-81a9471/
• His new book, free download -- The Nine Tendencies: The Little Adjustments that Build Trust in Every Communication https://www.ninetendencies.com
• Jon’s other bestselling books: https://tinyurl.com/ye23f2z3

Organizations, People and Resources Referenced

• Adam Sandler’s movie Grownups: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e01NVCveGkg
• Chaplain Jewelnel Davis: https://provost.columbia.edu/people/jewelnel-davis
• How Mehrabian’s famous study on body language gets misinterpreted: https://tinyurl.com/mr2j5mzh
• Quick Switching: https://quickswitching.com
• Jon’s talk: “Frenzied: How to Step Back from the Short Loop” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiOQHnI_ztE

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

Most leaders work 1-1 with executive coaches – but few use them to coach their entire leadership team. In this episode, 97% Effective host Michael Wenderoth explores the emerging field of leadership team coaching with David Matthew Prior, who has been at the forefront of organizational coaching for more than two decades. Michael and David discuss the science of effective teams—and how team coaches help leaders turn a collection of executives into a true team. David also shares his own path into the coaching world–and where traditional executive coaches must shift their approach to effectively serve leaders and their teams. If you are a leader or team member—or a coach or consultant who supports leadership teams—you’ll gain practical insights on how to assess and increase a team’s effectiveness.

SHOW NOTES

• The Rise of Leadership Team Coaching
• David’s path from banker to actor to coach—and the surprising way his professional training as an actor has helped him coach teams
• Recent trends driving the need for team coaching
• How team coaching and group coaching differ: “All teams are groups, but not all groups are teams”
• The importance of designing and structuring teams: “You can’t just show up and hope that the magic is going to occur.”

The Science of Effective Teams

• Hard truth: there’s little evidence that simply coaching team behaviors improves team performance.
• The 3 core elements of an effective team—and the 6 conditions that influence its effectiveness
• The multiple roles a team coach must play: facilitator, educator, consultant, and coach
• The 60:30:10 rule: where team coaches actually spend their time

Lessons from “crashing and burning” in David’s early coaching engagements

• The one condition where David spends most of his team coaching effort
• What effective teams and geese have in common
• The two signals David hones in on at the outset, to best assess a team’s dynamics
• How a team coach handles internal team politics
• The importance of speaking truth to leaders, and why team coaches need to have their own external support team

David on Teaching Coaches and AI

• “Coaches want a playbook--how to execute it—but it’s more complex than that.”
• Why David is seeking to bring more human capabilities into the team coaching space

BIO AND LINKS

David Matthew Prior, MCC, BCC, ACTC, brings 25 years of organizational coaching experience as a Master Certified Coach (ICF credentialed) based in the New York City Metropolitan area. His work in coaching executive and senior leadership spans internationally and across dozens of industries. Leveraging experience in coaching, finance, ethics training, and theater performance, David has had the honor to structure and teach in the organizational coaching program at Columbia University, guide and coach more than 1,000 senior leaders in more than 30 countries, train 5,000+ executive coaches and create results for more than 100 organizations. He is the founder of Getacoach.com, where he can be reached.

Connect with David

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmatthewprior/
• His website: www.GetaCoach.com

Organizations, People and Resources Referenced

• Columbia 3CP: https://www.tc.columbia.edu/coachingcertification/
• David’s teaching at University of Texas at Dallas: https://obcc.utdallas.edu/news/team-coaching-practitioner-program/
• Christine Thornton’s book: Group and Team Coaching (3rd ed): https://tinyurl.com/3bs873vx
• Peter Hawkins, the “five disciplines” model of team coaching. Editor of: Leadership Team Coaching in Practice (2nd ed): https://a.co/d/0cWsgxZl
• Richard Hackman, pioneer on the science of teams: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/leading-teams/9781633691216/
• The Six Conditions for Team Effectiveness (Hackman’s framework): https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-63546-5_19
• Mary Beth O’Neill. Her book: Executive Coaching with Backbone and Heart (2nd ed): https://a.co/d/00CAdCfe
• John Whittington, Henley Business School: https://www.henley.ac.uk/people/john-whittington
• The Columbia Coaching Conference: https://www.columbiacoachingconference.org
• Dr. Michael Jabbour: https://www.columbiacoachingconference.org/speaker/dr.-michael-j.-jabbour
• Ruth Wageman’s book: Senior Leadership Teams: What it Takes to Make Them Great https://a.co/d/0cOBISxw

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

In the past year, host Michael Wenderoth saw a huge jump in Stanford MBAs pursuing an alternative career path. When he sought to learn more, everyone pointed him to today’s guest, Ruby Au, a 2025 Stanford Business School graduate who chose the search fund path. In this episode of 97% Effective, Michael and Ruby discuss search funds, the hot alternative path to entrepreneurship, and why it is experiencing a surge in interest among MBAs, top talent—and investors looking for strong returns. Most people are familiar with private equity and venture capital, but far fewer understand search funds, so Michael and Ruby break down the nuts and bolts of the model, where entrepreneurs raise capital to search for, acquire, and operate an existing small business. Ruby also shares insights she gained from hundreds of coffee chats with industry insiders. If you feel constrained by working in big companies—but don’t have the stomach for a risky start-up, you’ll want to listen to this episode. Search—and Ruby’s insights—may open your eyes to the growth and impact that can come from the small, unsexy businesses that quietly power our economy.

 SHOW NOTES

What Search Funds Are – and How They Work

• How Ruby discovered search, and why it felt like a best-fit
• What search fund investors are looking for in the entrepreneurs and companies they back
• The “search phase” and the “acquisition/operating” phase
• Why “boring” companies that don’t make headlines can be great businesses
• Why many business sellers see search as a unique succession plan

Why Search Funds Are Taking Off – and Where They Are Going

• “An asset class that started to post 35% IRRs”
• The most successful search outcome of all time: from roadside rescue to that little purple logo at your Amazon checkout
• As money pours in, does mentorship and the traditional model scale?

Ruby’s Insights – What You Won’t Find in Reports

• How Ruby was taken off guard by the close-knit search ecosystem
• Why she started her blog Succession Story
• Ruby’s sector focus and what she wants to get out of her search process
• 3 insider insights: How new investors are challenging the traditional search model; how to find the right business for you; and how search can reshape how you view social impact

BIO AND LINKS

Ruby Au is a search fund entrepreneur and Principal at Succession Story LLC. Her career began in Nairobi, Kenya, where she founded an edtech venture acquired in 2020. She later launched the African office for San Francisco-based Endless Computers and served as Head of North America for the green search engine, Ecosia. Ruby graduated summa cum laude with dual degrees in Business Administration and Environmental Studies from the University of Southern California and holds an MBA from Stanford, where she served on the leadership of Stanford's Search Fund Club. Ruby enjoys SCUBA diving, salsa dancing, boxing, and traveling, having visited over 35 countries across five continents.

Connect with Ruby

• Her search fund: https://www.successionstory.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruby-au/
• Substack: Succession Story: Becoming a Search Fund Entrepreneur: https://successionstory.substack.com

People and Things referenced

• H. Irv Grousbeck: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/h-irving-grousbeck
• Asurion – The Greatest Search Fund Deal of all time: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/business/smallbusiness/12hunt.html
• Ruby’s list of search fund investors: https://successionstory.substack.com/p/the-wonderful-world-of-search-fund
• So Good They Can’t Ignore You (Cal Newport): https://a.co/d/0cefCIku
• Stanford Business School’s Search Fund Center: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/about/centers-institutes/ces/research/search-funds
• IESE’s International Search Fund Center: https://www.iese.edu/entrepreneurship/search-funds/

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

Most women have lived as the side dish – supporting everyone else while putting themselves last. When I shared that line with my wife, she didn’t hesitate: “That’s me.” In this episode of 97% Effective, I speak with Deborah Grayson Riegel — executive coach, leadership communications expert, and co‑creator of TheMeMenu, a new personal growth platform designed for women over 50 who are ready to reclaim agency, imagination, and momentum in their lives. Deb shares how she teamed up with celebrity chef Carla Hall to build something that blends coaching, creativity, and AI — all through the metaphor of cooking and their Six Flavor framework. We discuss what’s different for women 50+, how AI can democratize coaching (and where humans still matter most), and what partners can actually do — practically — to support the women they love. I also share what surprised me most in this conversation — including what I learned after asking my own wife what actually helps (hint: “How can I help?” isn’t always it). By the end of this episode, you’ll see cooking as a powerful lens for work and life. While The ME Menu is designed for women over 50, the key message — navigating obligation and agency — applies to anyone ready to write their next chapter.

SHOW NOTES

TheMeMenu story

• Why so many women spend decades as the “side dish,” what it means to reclaim main-dish energy – and why that matters
• How Deb connected with Carla Hall, celebrity chef, and why the collaboration clicked so well
• What TheMeMenu actually is: A way of thinking and being + 6-week self-paced coaching program + An AI-powered “Sous Chef” for spot-coaching
• What makes TheMeMenu unique: Built by women over 50 for women over 50, Carla Hall’s “secret sauce”, and a mission to democratize access to coaching
• Why Deb sees AI as a complement to human coaching, not a replacement

Inside the Collaboration

• Deb, Carla, and Kirsten: three women, three strengths
• Their creative process: cooking vs baking
• Why “nothing works if the raw ingredients aren’t good”
• The importance of creating their “mise en place”
• Over 100 iterations – and why “there’s no such thing as done”
• Building a product while the technology was still emerging

Practical Takeaways

• What partners, spouses, kids, and friends can most do to support the women in their lives
• Two powerful questions to ask – and 1 micro-behavior that matters
• Why “How can I help?’ can be taxing – and why it’s often better to just make offers
• Thinking in terms of a lifelong conversation, not a one-time check-in
• Lightning Round laser insights: Deb on the hard truth about personal change, the key to collaboration, the power of her summer in Spain, and the focus of her new book, Aim High and Bounce Back: A Successful Woman’s Guide to Rethinking and Rising Up from Failure

BIO AND LINKS

Deborah Grayson Riegel, MSW, PCC is a keynote speaker, leadership communications expert, executive coach, and author. She is the co-creator of TheMeMenu.com, a self-paced coaching platform designed to help women reclaim purpose and momentum in midlife and beyond. Deb is a regular contributor for Harvard Business Review, Inc., Psychology Today, Forbes, and Fast Company – and author of multiple books include Go to Help, Overcoming Overthinking, and her newest book, Aim High and Bounce Back (2026), which explores how women experience failure differently — and how to rise after setbacks. She is a certified executive coach (ICF PCC) and holds a BA from University of Michigan and MSW from Columbia University.

Connect with Deb

• TheMeMenu: https://www.thememenu.com/about
• Deb’s website: https://deborahgraysonriegel.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahgraysonriegel/
• Deb’s new book, with Fiona Macaulay – Aim High and Bounce Back: A Successful Woman’s Guide to Rethinking and Rising Up from Failure https://a.co/d/05NJJNcn

People and Things referenced

• Carla Hall, celebrity chef: https://carlahall.com
• Stanford Business School WIM groups: https://tinyurl.com/yc6zssc2
• Halle Barry at the DealBook Summit: https://tinyurl.com/ymmcuk54
• What exclaiming “poo-poo-poo” means (Jewish expression): https://tinyurl.com/yn6ny9t3
• Hybrid Intelligence: 2025 Columbia University Coaching Conference https://tinyurl.com/4ss3s2cr
• “Mise en place” (French culinary phrase for “putting in place”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mise_en_place

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

Most leaders were taught to leave their emotions at the door. Today’s guest says that advice isn’t just outdated — it’s costly. In this episode of 97% Effective, host Michael Wenderoth sits down with Dina Denham Smith, executive coach and bestselling author of Emotionally Charged, to unpack why emotional skill is now a core leadership capability, not a “soft” add-on. Drawing on behavioral science and her work as an executive coach and strategic advisor, Dina explains why emotions are data, how leaders unknowingly perform massive emotional labor, and what it really takes to manage triggers, prevent burnout, and unlock performance. As Dina puts it: “Emotions are money.” By the end of this conversation, you’ll see why ignoring emotions is bad for you and bad for business – and what to do instead.

SHOW NOTES

Dina’s story — and why this work matters

• One surprising thing about Dina you won’t find on the internet
• How Emotionally Charged would have helped Dina earlier in her own career
• What sparked Dina’s interest in the science of emotions
• How the pandemic and technology shifts dramatically increased the emotional demands placed on leaders

Core ideas from Emotionally Charged

• The key takeaway: Emotions are information
• “Emotions are money”: how feelings directly translate into performance, retention, and results
• The biggest myth Dina wants to retire: that emotions get in the way of good business decisions
• What “emotional labor” really means — and why research shows leaders perform as much of it as customer service professionals (and in more complex ways)
• The three layers of every emotion: physiology, cognition, and behavior
• Why suppressing emotions is like trying to hold beach balls underwater

Practical tools you can use immediately

• Beach balls, masks, and “letting it all hang out”: finding the right balance at work
• Why expanding your emotional vocabulary dramatically improves self-regulation
• Dina’s BRAVE framework for managing triggers in real time: Breathe, Refocus, Accept, Verbalize, Engage
• Restoration (not “self-care”): four evidence-based ways leaders recover from emotional strain: Detachment, Relaxation, Mastery, Control

Power, leadership, and team culture

• Why leaders consistently underestimate their emotional impact
• How power amplifies everything you feel and show
• Why everyone cues off their leader’s emotional signals (often unconsciously)
• How leaders can normalize emotional expression on their teams — without turning meetings into complaint sessions
• Simple ways managers can reset emotional culture inside their own sphere of influence
• Dina’s reminder: emotional skills are learnable — and improvable at any stage of your career.

BIO AND LINKS

Dina Denham Smith is an executive coach and strategic advisor who helps senior leaders build their capacity, scale their impact, and thrive in complexity. For more than a decade, she has partnered with executives at some of the world’s most successful companies, helping them navigate the demands of operating at the highest levels. Dina holds an MS in Industrial/Organizational Psychology and an MBA from the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan, and she is credentialed by both the ICF and EMCC as an executive and team coach. A prolific thought leader, Dina has published more than 60 articles on leadership for Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, and other premium outlets. She is the lead author of Emotionally Charged: How to Lead in the New World of Work (Oxford University Press, 2025).

Connect with Dina

• Website: https://dinadsmith.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dina-denham-smith/
• Her book: https://dinadsmith.com/book/

People and Books Referenced

• Dr. Alicia Grandey — Dina’s co-author https://psych.la.psu.edu/people/aag6/
• Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker https://a.co/d/07CbSJAY

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective

Learn more about Michael Wenderoth, Executive Coach: www.changwenderoth.com

“If you want the social benefits of being authentic, how you feel inside may have very little to do with it.” At work, we like to believe we’re evaluated on substance. In reality, we’re constantly being judged on how we perform— how authentic we seem, how prepared we appear, and how natural we look like in our role. In this episode of 97% Effective, host Michael Wenderoth speaks with Alexa Samaniego, Presentation Coach and Doctoral Researcher at Stanford University, about how we judge performances and performers — and why those judgments matter far more than most people realize. Drawing from behavioral research, one-on-one presentation coaching, and her background in theater and the performing arts, Alexa challenges some of the most comforting things we believe (“just be yourself,” “don’t over-rehearse,” “there’s universal best practices for presenting”) and replaces them with a more honest view of how credibility, competence, and connection are actually earned. This is not an episode about becoming fake. But it will get you thinking differently about how you show up at work if you want to better influence outcomes. You’ll leave this episode with a much more realistic understanding of how you’re really judged — and how to work with that reality, rather than against it.

SHOW NOTES

• Alexa’s path from theater and the creative arts to doctoral research and presentation coaching
• How her background in performance shapes the research questions she studies
• What organizational behavior research looks like in practice: an overview of the PhD arc
• Why most people under-rehearse presentations — despite clear benefits of repetition
• Why fear of “sounding fake” leads people to underperform
• Alexa’s two distinct definitions of authenticity: authentic to self vs. authentic to role
• Why being perceived as authentic matters more than feeling authentic
• Spontaneity and consistency as two key drivers of being seen as authentic
• How researchers measure authenticity and test perceptions in lab and field settings
• The uncomfortable truth: social benefits depend on how you come across, not how you feel
• Why we are always playing roles at work — and why separating intentions from behaviors matters
• “It only feels inauthentic because it’s not habitual yet”
• Insights from actors on how to step into a role without losing yourself
• The “outside-in” effect: how dress, voice, and physical behavior shape perception
• Tradeoffs between authenticity, polish, and competence at work
• Alexa’s third research stream: the double-edged sword of being (and looking) prepared
• When preparation signals competence — and when it backfires as “trying too hard”
• Why “everything depends”: how Alexa’s coaching changed after doing her research
• How universal presentation advice can fail across gender, culture, and context
• Drawing from the outside world: how Alexa’s theater background differentiates her research lens
• Horror films, storytelling, and what they reveal about authenticity and self-expression
• Alexa’s hard truth: research is powerful, but techniques must be practiced before being used in high-stakes settings

BIO AND LINKS

Alexa Samaniego is a Presentation Coach and a doctoral researcher in Organizational Behavior (Micro) at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Her research is inspired by her background in theatre and the performing arts, and examines how speakers and audiences judge others. Her research informs her work as a presentation coach in the Stanford Oral Communication Program and with TEDxStanford. Prior to beginning her PhD, Alexa worked as a research associate at Achievers Workforce Institute and Columbia Business School. She received her BS in Business Psychology from UC San Diego and her MS in Applied Psychology from San Diego State University. Alexa also specializes in portrait photography and creating short horror films.

Connect with Alexa

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexa-samaniego/
• Email: alexasam [at] stanford.edu
• Website: https://www.alexasamaniego.com
• Stanford Profile: https://profiles.stanford.edu/alexa-samaniego

People, Ideas and Films Referenced

• Erving Goffman:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erving_Goffman
• Yasmin Williams (double-necked guitar performance): https://www.yasminwilliamsmusic.com/media-horizon
• Covering, the concept (Wharton): https://tinyurl.com/353c7p8u
• 1408, horror film: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450385/
• Erica Bailey: https://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/erica-r-bailey/
• Brian Lowery: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/brian-lowery
• Benoît Monin: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/benoit-monin
• Alexa’s short films Too Late and 5 Weeks to Transform Your Life: https://www.alexasamaniego.com/art

More from 97% Effective

• Michael’s Award-winning Book: Get Promoted: What You’re Really Missing at Work That’s Holding You Back: https://tinyurl.com/453txk74
• Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@97PercentEffective