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Season 5 was about more than business.
It was about:
• Vision before revenue
• Growth through discomfort
• Learning from failure
• Contentment over ego
• And building support systems that matter
If you missed an episode, go back and catch up now.
Season 6 is coming soon.
Subscribe so you don’t miss it.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
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youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz, helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Brad McGinity
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcginity/
Fear never completely disappears as an entrepreneur. The difference is that successful founders learn to take action anyway, trusting that growth comes from stepping into uncertainty instead of avoiding it.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Brad McGinnity, Chief Revenue Officer at Tithely, to discuss his journey through SaaS startups, startup failures, leadership, and the lessons that come from building companies while raising a family.
Brad shares how he stumbled into software sales, co-founded a marketing analytics startup while in business school, and experienced the uncertainty of building a venture-backed company with little financial security. Those early challenges taught him resilience, strengthened his confidence, and helped shape the leader he is today.
But this conversation goes far beyond software.
Brad opens up about growing up through his parents’ divorce, how that experience shaped his commitment to family, and why success means very little if you’re not fully present with the people who matter most.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, health, resilience, family, faith, and the habits that help founders perform at their best.
Whether you’re launching your first startup or leading an established company, Brad shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why fear should never stop you from pursuing your vision
• How startup failures build confidence instead of destroying it
• Why exercising every day improves leadership performance
• The importance of being fully present with your family
• How accountability creates lasting healthy habits
• Why consistency matters more than perfection
• How setbacks prepare entrepreneurs for bigger opportunities
• Why building a business should be about more than financial success
• How resilience compounds throughout your entrepreneurial journey
Brad also shares how his Soft 60 accountability program transformed his health, why movement has become a non-negotiable part of his daily routine, and how embracing difficult seasons helped him become both a stronger entrepreneur and a better husband and father.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, business leadership, startup growth, resilience, personal development, health, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz, helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Jeffrey Hayzlett
Website: https://c-suitenetwork.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayzlett/
Podcast: All Business with Jeffrey Hayzlett
Trust isn’t built through marketing—it’s built through relationships. The strongest businesses aren’t simply selling products; they’re creating communities where people genuinely want to belong.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Jeffrey Hayzlett, Chairman of C-Suite Network, former Fortune 100 Chief Marketing Officer, bestselling author, and television host, to discuss entrepreneurship, leadership, media, and what it takes to build trust at scale.
Jeffrey shares his incredible journey from buying his first printing company in South Dakota to leading marketing at Kodak, serving as a judge on Celebrity Apprentice, hosting shows on Bloomberg Television, and ultimately building C-Suite Network into one of the world’s largest communities of business executives.
But this conversation goes far beyond business.
Jeffrey explains why every modern company must think like a media company, how meaningful content builds stronger relationships than traditional advertising, and why surrounding yourself with mentors can completely change the trajectory of your life.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, marketing, resilience, community, health, family, and the importance of investing your time where it creates the greatest value.
Whether you’re launching your first startup or leading a global organization, Jeffrey shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why every business should think like a media company
• How trusted communities become a long-term competitive advantage
• Why relationships matter more than transactions
• How mentors can completely change your entrepreneurial journey
• Why protecting your time is one of a leader’s greatest responsibilities
• How authentic content outperforms traditional marketing
• Why lifelong learning fuels continued success
• How great leaders create value by helping others grow
• Why entrepreneurs should think bigger and move faster
Jeffrey also shares how his experiences at Kodak, Bloomberg Television, and C-Suite Network shaped his leadership philosophy, why curiosity continues to drive his success, and how building genuine relationships has opened doors throughout his entire career.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, business leadership, marketing, media, community building, personal development, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz, helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Tim Metzner
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timmetzner
Company's Site: https://www.fireroad.io/
Free daily booster shot of motivation: www.dailymo.co
Building a business that lasts isn’t about chasing the next trend—it’s about investing in people, embracing new technology, and staying committed to your values through every stage of the journey.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Tim Metzner, Founder and CEO of Fireroad, to discuss entrepreneurship, venture capital, company building, and why the next generation of successful businesses will combine traditional industries with modern technology.
Tim shares his journey from joining a startup while still in college to helping build Cincinnati’s startup ecosystem through venture-backed companies, accelerators, angel investing, and now Fireroad—a venture fund and holding company focused on acquiring and modernizing small businesses with technology and AI.
But this conversation goes far beyond startups.
Tim opens up about raising four children while building companies, why entrepreneurship has seasons, and how his faith has shaped both his leadership style and his definition of success. He also explains why great founders don’t try to do everything themselves—they surround themselves with exceptional people.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, resilience, family, faith, health, venture capital, and the mindset required to build businesses that stand the test of time.
Whether you’re launching your first startup or leading an established business, Tim shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why entrepreneurship happens in seasons, not perfect balance
• How AI will transform traditional industries instead of replacing them
• Why building the right team is every founder’s greatest advantage
• The importance of protecting family time during intense work seasons
• How coaching youth sports creates better leadership skills
• Why health should be treated like any other business priority
• How faith shaped Tim’s entrepreneurial journey
• Why founders should focus on long-term ownership instead of quick exits
• How investing in people creates businesses that last for generations
Tim also shares why one-on-one trips with his children have become a family tradition, how his wife has been an essential partner throughout his entrepreneurial journey, and why surrounding yourself with people who complement your strengths is one of the smartest investments a founder can make.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, venture capital, business leadership, startup growth, family, faith, resilience, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz, helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Jim Zipursky
Websites: www.cfaw.com and www.cfaw.com/omaha
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-zipursky-2343281/
Building a successful career shouldn’t require sacrificing your health, your family, or the experiences that make life meaningful. The best entrepreneurs understand that lasting success comes from playing the long game.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Jimmy Zipursky, Managing Director of Corporate Finance Associates and Chairman & CEO of CFA Worldwide, to discuss entrepreneurship, mergers and acquisitions, family business, and what it takes to build a rewarding career without losing sight of what matters most.
Jimmy shares his unconventional path into investment banking, from working in college athletics and recruiting to joining his father’s mergers and acquisitions firm. Along the way, he discovered that helping founders navigate one of the biggest decisions of their lives—the sale of their business—is about much more than financial transactions.
But this conversation goes far beyond mergers and acquisitions.
Jimmy reflects on growing up in a family of entrepreneurs, the lessons passed down by his father, and how his wife helped redefine the balance between career success and family life. He also explains why slowing down, enjoying the journey, and making time for meaningful experiences has become one of the greatest lessons of his career.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, family, health, resilience, travel, and the importance of building a life—not just a business.
Whether you’re starting your first company or preparing for the next stage of your entrepreneurial journey, Jimmy shares practical lessons every founder can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why entrepreneurship is a marathon, not a sprint
• How family businesses shape entrepreneurial thinking
• Why founders should protect family time above everything else
• The importance of slowing down and enjoying the journey
• How daily habits improve long-term health and leadership
• Why mentorship can completely change your career
• How selling a business is about people, not just numbers
• Why entrepreneurs should let the business grow before themselves
• How work-life balance creates more sustainable success
Jimmy also shares why family dinners became a non-negotiable tradition, how traveling differently changed his perspective on life, and why taking time to experience the places you visit can be just as valuable as the business meetings themselves.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, business leadership, mergers and acquisitions, family business, work-life balance, resilience, and personal development, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz, helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Stacy Ennis
Website: https://stacyennis.com
Podcast: Beyond Better
Instagram: @stacyennis - https://www.instagram.com/stacyennis/
LinkedIn: Stacy Ennis - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacylynn/
Youtube: https://youtube.com/@UCSSBgjPbZEJyUOAYGcAoVYQ
The best businesses don’t consume your life—they support the life you want to live. Success isn’t just about building a profitable company; it’s about intentionally designing a business that aligns with your values, your family, and your future.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Stacy Ennis, book strategist, author coach, and founder of a globally recognized writing consultancy, to discuss entrepreneurship, creativity, personal growth, and why founders should build their lives before they build their businesses.
Stacy shares her journey from falling in love with books as a child to becoming a professional editor, ghostwriter, and trusted advisor to bestselling authors, Nobel Prize winners, and thought leaders. Along the way, she built a fully remote business that allowed her family to move internationally and create a life centered around freedom, health, and purpose.
But this conversation goes far beyond writing books.
Stacy explains why hustle culture is one of the biggest myths in entrepreneurship, how rest fuels better performance, and why founders should intentionally create businesses that serve their lives instead of controlling them.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, family, health, travel, resilience, creativity, and the importance of designing a life you’re excited to wake up to every day.
Whether you’re starting your first company or looking to redefine success, Stacy shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why your business should support your life—not the other way around
• How rest and recovery improve entrepreneurial performance
• Why hustle culture often leads to burnout instead of success
• The importance of creating a clear vision for your future
• How writing a book can strengthen your business and personal brand
• Why health is one of the greatest competitive advantages for founders
• How travel and new experiences create better leaders
• Why empathy is an essential entrepreneurial skill
• How intentional decisions compound into an extraordinary life
Stacy also shares how moving abroad transformed her worldview, why her family’s approach to health became a defining part of their lifestyle, and how creating space for creativity and restoration has helped her build a business she truly loves.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, business leadership, personal development, health and wellness, creativity, resilience, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz — helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Darryl Heffline
Website: https://www.darrylheffline.com
Book: Shifting Gears at the Crossroads
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrylheffline/
Success isn’t built on business alone. The strongest entrepreneurs build their lives on four foundations: faith, family, fitness, and finances. When one is neglected, everything else eventually begins to suffer.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Darryl “DJ” Heffline, serial entrepreneur, executive, author, and transformation coach, to discuss the lessons he learned after experiencing both extraordinary success and devastating setbacks throughout his 40-year entrepreneurial career.
DJ shares how losing a business he helped build became the wake-up call that forced him to reevaluate everything. Instead of defining himself by his career, he began rebuilding his life around principles that would create lasting fulfillment, resilience, and purpose.
But this conversation goes far beyond entrepreneurship.
DJ introduces the four foundational pillars that have shaped his life—faith, family, fitness, and finances—and explains why true transformation begins when founders stop chasing success at the expense of everything else.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, resilience, personal growth, family, health, and the mindset required to navigate life’s inevitable disruptions.
Whether you’re building your first startup or rebuilding after a setback, DJ shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why every founder needs strong foundations beyond business
• How setbacks can become the catalyst for transformation
• Why identity should never be tied only to your career
• The importance of balancing faith, family, fitness, and finances
• How intentional routines create long-term success
• Why entrepreneurs should schedule time for what matters most
• How resilience is built through adversity
• Why creating a personal vision is essential for leadership
• How transforming yourself leads to transforming your business
DJ also shares how one of the most difficult periods of his life became the beginning of a completely new chapter, why personal transformation is an ongoing process, and how every disruption presents an opportunity to become stronger than before.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, business leadership, resilience, personal development, work-life balance, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz — helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Vova Feldman
Company: Freemius
Website: https://freemius.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimir-feldman/
X (Twitter): https://x.com/vovafeldman
YouTube: Captain Vova
Building a successful company shouldn’t come at the cost of your health, your relationships, or your peace of mind. The best entrepreneurs learn that sustainable success comes from balance—not constant hustle.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Vova Feldman, Founder and CEO of Freemius, to discuss entrepreneurship, SaaS, startup growth, and the lessons he learned while building a global platform that helps software companies sell products around the world.
Vova shares how a side project became Freemius after realizing that building software was often easier than commercializing it. What started as solving his own problem evolved into a platform that empowers thousands of software developers to launch, sell, and grow their businesses without reinventing the commercial side of software.
But this conversation goes far beyond startups.
Vova reflects on becoming a father later in life, how parenting transformed the way he prioritizes his time, and why entrepreneurs need to learn when to stop working, recharge, and trust the teams they’ve built.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, family, health, resilience, personal growth, and the mindset required to build a business without sacrificing the life you’re building it for.
Whether you’re launching your first startup or leading a growing SaaS company, Vova shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why overworking eventually hurts both you and your business
• How becoming a parent changes your priorities as a founder
• Why great entrepreneurs learn to focus on what matters most
• The importance of sleep, fitness, and daily routines
• How sports improve both physical and mental performance
• Why mentorship accelerates entrepreneurial growth
• How learning from mistakes creates better leaders
• Why staying calm during challenges leads to better decisions
• How balancing work and life creates more sustainable success
Vova also shares how Techstars helped shape his entrepreneurial mindset, why customer experience matters more than technical perfection, and how helping other founders succeed has become one of the most rewarding parts of building Freemius.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, SaaS, software startups, business leadership, resilience, personal development, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz — helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Aaron Edwards
Company: The Charles Group
Website: https://www.thecharlesgrp.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronedwards/
Personal Website: https://www.aaroncharlesedwards.com/
Entrepreneurship isn’t a job title—it’s a mindset. Whether you’re building a startup, leading a team, or growing your career, thinking like an entrepreneur can transform the way you approach challenges, opportunities, and life itself.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with Aaron Edwards, Founder and CEO of The Charles Group, to discuss entrepreneurship, leadership, branding, and how building a successful business starts long before launching your first company.
Aaron shares his journey from growing up in Manchester, England, to building a global digital agency in New York City that partners with Fortune 500 brands. Along the way, he reflects on the influence of his entrepreneurial parents, the lessons learned from early failures, and why success comes from embracing curiosity, resilience, and continuous growth.
But this conversation goes far beyond business.
Aaron explains why entrepreneurship is really a journey of self-discovery, how becoming a father transformed his leadership style, and why work-life integration is a healthier goal than trying to achieve perfect work-life balance.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, business leadership, family, health, creativity, resilience, and the mindset required to build both a successful company and a meaningful life.
Whether you’re launching your first startup or simply looking to think more like an entrepreneur, Aaron shares practical lessons everyone can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why entrepreneurship is a mindset—not a job title
• How early failures often become your greatest advantages
• Why work-life integration is better than chasing perfect balance
• How becoming a parent changes your leadership style
• The importance of building a business around outcomes instead of ego
• Why curiosity drives long-term entrepreneurial success
• How fitness and health improve decision-making
• Why every professional can benefit from entrepreneurial thinking
• How resilience compounds over the course of a career
Aaron also shares how moving from the UK to New York shaped his entrepreneurial journey, why building relationships matters more than chasing titles, and how creating the right culture helps both businesses and people thrive.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, business leadership, branding, creativity, startup growth, personal development, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
This episode of A Founder’s Life is brought to you by Thankz — helping founders scale with reliable remote talent. Get $1,000 off your first month by emailing [email protected] with the subject line Founder’s Life.
🌐 Follow A Founder’s Life
• YouTube: @AFoundersLife
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a-founder-s-life-podcast/
• Instagram: @afounderslife
• Spotify & Apple Podcast: https://linktr.ee/afounderslife
👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – J.D. LaRock
Organization: Network for Teaching Entrepreneurship (NFTE)
Website: https://www.nfte.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-d-larock-j-d-ed-d-56765298/
Instagram / TikTok: @NFTE
Success isn’t reserved for entrepreneurs who launch billion-dollar companies. It’s available to anyone willing to think differently, build confidence, and take ownership of their future.
In this episode of A Founder’s Life, Leo Gestetner sits down with JD LaRock, President and CEO of the Network for Teaching Entrepreneurship (NFTE), to discuss how entrepreneurial thinking can transform lives—whether someone starts a business or simply becomes a better leader, employee, or community member.
JD shares his journey through education, government, journalism, and nonprofit leadership before taking the helm at NFTE, a global organization that has helped hundreds of thousands of young people develop the confidence, creativity, and mindset needed to succeed in today’s world.
But this conversation goes far beyond entrepreneurship education.
JD reflects on the power of mentorship, how one leader’s belief in him changed the course of his career, and why confidence—not business knowledge—is often the biggest factor separating those who pursue opportunities from those who never try.
Throughout the conversation, we explore entrepreneurship, leadership, education, family, health, personal growth, and the importance of helping others unlock their potential.
Whether you’re building a startup, leading a team, or simply looking to grow personally, JD shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply.
In this episode you’ll learn:
• Why confidence is one of the greatest gifts you can give someone
• How entrepreneurial thinking benefits everyone—not just founders
• Why mentorship can completely change the trajectory of your life
• The importance of investing in education and lifelong learning
• How healthy habits improve leadership performance
• Why serving others creates lasting fulfillment
• How small opportunities can lead to extraordinary careers
• Why asking for help is a strength—not a weakness
• How entrepreneurs build success by empowering others
JD also shares how losing more than 70 pounds transformed his relationship with health, why becoming a father reshaped his priorities, and how NFTE is helping students around the world develop the confidence to create opportunities for themselves and their communities.
If you enjoy conversations about entrepreneurship, founder mindset, leadership, education, mentorship, personal development, resilience, and building meaningful businesses, you’ll enjoy this episode.
linkedin.com/in/leogestetner
Website
leogestetner.com/leo
Subscribe Now!
youtube.com/@afounderslife?sub_confirmation=1
From the publisher's feed
Join me as I explore the powerful intersection of entrepreneurship, health & wellness, and parenthood. In each episode, I’ll be interviewing inspiring individuals who excel in one or more of…